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List:       kde-artists
Subject:    Re: [kde-artists] New Oxygen icon "page-zoom"
From:       Kenneth Wimer <wimer () kde ! org>
Date:       2008-05-26 13:08:00
Message-ID: 200805261508.00600.wimer () kde ! org
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On Monday 26 May 2008 14:48:22 James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> Jakob Petsovits wrote:
> > On Monday, 26. May 2008, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> >> You mentioned a lot of things that you have done and considered, but you
> >> have not listed logical consistency among them.  The naming standard and
> >> logical consistency are the two most important things.  This means that
> >> we need to consider finite mathematics, set theory, and tree diagrams in
> >> considering what to name icons.
> >
> > Consider, yes. Use as sole, unchangable truth, no.
>
> Mathematics is an absolute and unchangeable truth.

But our understanding of it is not. That's called living in the real world.

> But, here is how I see this.  The math doesn't care what the names are,
> the choice of words is totally subjective and should be made based on
> what we think will be best.  OTOH, the hierarchal relationship between
> icon names is where set theory and tree diagrams are important.
>
> > Remember, we're not here to gain a doctorate in mathematics.
>
> We are not talking about anything near that level.
>
> > We're here to make icons work for people across desktops.
>
> Geez, it gets worse.  First the leftist Ontology and now simple
> anti-intellectualism. :-D  What is an engineer to do?

Wow, your an engineer...I'd be impressed if I hadn't studied engineering as 
well. After working for companies in the real world you realize how much of 
what you studied really goes into the practice. Deal with it.

> Math is not something you take in college and then forget about.  Math
> is the language used to describe how things work.  Set theory and tree
> diagrams are the tools to logically organize things.

And our understanding of it changes over time. Seeing the world as one big 
machine is really intersting but it makes me wonder how you pick your clothes 
in the morning and whether you have any idea of what art/design and it's 
interaction with visual metaphors mean.

> > If logic is not suited to achieve that goal, it will only be a secondary
> > goal, *after* making icons work for people.
>
> It is my belief that it should be obvious that an icon naming scheme
> that is logically consistent is not a secondary goal since such an icon
> scheme will work for the developers and users -- conversely, one that is
> logically inconsistent will not work well for people.

Logic for the sake of logic is not necessarily what we want. We are making 
this stuff for people. People tend not to see *everything* logically (execpt 
perhaps the Germans :p)

Ken

P.S. sorry for poking fun at the Germans, it was a joke
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