'Re: [Full-disclosure] PayPal.com XSS Vulnerability'

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List:       full-disclosure
Subject:    Re: [Full-disclosure] PayPal.com XSS Vulnerability
From:       Daniel Preussker <daniel () preussker ! net>
Date:       2013-05-30 23:12:17
Message-ID: ED64A737-3140-4239-BF6E-2E87FCF6D4FA () preussker ! net
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On 29.05.2013, at 16:11, Andre Helwig wrote:

> Best solution, don't report the bugs.
> Use the bugs to get your money.. and publish them afterwards :D
> 
> 
> On 29.05.13 16:04, James Condron wrote:
> > Hrm,
> > 
> > I read it that the issue was still the age but that the previous disclosure was another \
> > reason they had found. Its sneaky and poor but I didn't read it as a change in reason; just \
> > an additional thing they found. It may even be true. 
> > The fact is they handled this poorly but whether they're lying about another person finding \
> > it or not had they been cleverly dishonest they would have gone with that in the first \
> > place. 
> > They ought really pay, though.
> > 
> > On 29 May 2013, at 14:51, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi James,
> > > 
> > > > I guess the email from ebay sorta makes it all moot anyway.
> > > Its interesting how the reason code changed. On May 24 the reason was
> > > Kugler was too young; and then on May 29 the reason was the flaw was
> > > previously reported.
> > > 
> > > It sounds like PayPal is lying to bring this to an end; and they've
> > > lost more credibility.
> > > 
> > > Jeff
> > > 
> > > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:22 AM, James Condron
> > > <james@zero-internet.org.uk> wrote:
> > > > Ah, but then don't forget that in a contract (which this most certainly is not- but the \
> > > > parallels are there) ambiguity benefits the party which didn't draft the document. 
> > > > If its reasonable to infer a payment, and reasonable to fail to infer an age range, I \
> > > > think its reasonable to get paid for it. 
> > > > I guess the email from ebay sorta makes it all moot anyway.
> > > > 
> > > > On 29 May 2013, at 13:33, Julius Kivimäki <julius.kivimaki@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Well, they don't exactly state that they're going to pay you either.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2013/5/29 Źmicier Januszkiewicz <gauri@tut.by>
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Hmm, interesting.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For some reason I fail to find the mentioned "age requirements" at the
> > > > > > official bug bounty page located at
> > > > > > https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/reporting-security-issues
> > > > > > Am I looking in the wrong direction? Can someone please point to where
> > > > > > this is written?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > With kind regards,
> > > > > > Z.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2013/5/29 Robert Kugler <robert.kugler10@gmail.com>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 2013/5/29 Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Robert Kugler
> > > > > > > > <robert.kugler10@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hello all!
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I'm Robert Kugler a 17 years old German student who's interested in
> > > > > > > > securing
> > > > > > > > > computer systems.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I would like to warn you that PayPal.com is vulnerable to a Cross-Site
> > > > > > > > > Scripting vulnerability!
> > > > > > > > > PayPal Inc. is running a bug bounty program for professional security
> > > > > > > > > researchers.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > Unfortunately PayPal disqualified me from receiving any bounty payment
> > > > > > > > > because of being 17 years old...
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > I don't want to allege PayPal a kind of bug bounty cost saving, but
> > > > > > > > it's not
> > > > > > > > > the best idea when you're interested in motivated security
> > > > > > > > researchers...
> > > > > > > > Fortunately Microsoft and Firefox took a more reasonable positions for
> > > > > > > > the bugs you discovered with their products.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > PCWorld and MSN picked up the story:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039940/paypal-denies-teenager-reward-for-finding-website-bug.html
> > > > > > > >  and
> > > > > > > > http://now.msn.com/paypal-denies-reward-to-robert-kugler-teen-who-found-bug-in-code
> > > > > > > >                 
> > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > It is now news worthy to Wikipedia, where it will live forever under
> > > > > > > > Criticisms (unfortunately, it appears PayPal does a lot of
> > > > > > > > questionable things so its just one of a long list).
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Today I received an email from PayPal Site Security:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > "Hi Robert,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > We appreciate your research efforts and we are sorry that our
> > > > > > > age requirements restrict you from participating in our Bug Bounty Program.
> > > > > > > With regards to your specific bug submission, we should have also mentioned
> > > > > > > that the vulnerability you submitted was previously reported by another
> > > > > > > researcher and we are already actively fixing the issue. We hope that you
> > > > > > > understand that bugs that have previously been reported to us are not
> > > > > > > eligible for payment as we must honor the original researcher that provided
> > > > > > > the vulnerability.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I would also mention that in general, PayPal has been a consistent
> > > > > > > supporter of what is known as "responsible disclosure".  That is, ensuring
> > > > > > > that a company has a reasonable amount of time to fix a bug from
> > > > > > > notification to public disclosure.  This allows the company to fix the bug,
> > > > > > > so that criminals cannot use that knowledge to exploit it, but still gives
> > > > > > > the researchers the ability to draw attention to their skills and
> > > > > > > experience.  When researchers go down the "full disclosure" path, it then
> > > > > > > puts us in a race with criminals who may successfully use the vulnerability
> > > > > > > you found to victimize our customers.  We do not support the full
> > > > > > > disclosure methodology, precisely because it puts real people at
> > > > > > > unnecessary risk. We hope you keep that in mind when doing future research.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > We acknowledge that PayPal can do more to recognize younger security
> > > > > > > researchers around the world. As a first step, we would like you to be the
> > > > > > > first security researcher in the history of our program to receive an
> > > > > > > official "Letter of Recognition" from our Chief Information Security
> > > > > > > Officer Michael Barrett (attached, will follow up with a signed copy
> > > > > > > tomorrow). We truly appreciate your contribution to helping keep PayPal
> > > > > > > secure for our customers and we will continue to explore other ways that we
> > > > > > > can we provide alternate recognition for younger researchers.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > We'd welcome the chance to explain this all to you first hand over the
> > > > > > > phone, please email us at this address with a number and good time to reach
> > > > > > > you and we'd be happy to follow-up.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > > PayPal Site Security"
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > It's still curious that they only mentioned the first researcher who
> > > > > > > previously found the bug after all the media attention...Nevertheless I
> > > > > > > appreciate their intentions to acknowledge also younger security
> > > > > > > researchers, it's a step in the right direction!!
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Robert Kugler
> > _______________________________________________
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Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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