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List:       fedora-devel-list
Subject:    Re: Fedora minimum hardware requirements
From:       mkolman () redhat ! com
Date:       2021-10-19 16:43:35
Message-ID: 515bbb3a117ff016e58a60eb3e01c7c4a3753b4e.camel () redhat ! com
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On Tue, 2021-10-19 at 10:57 +0200, Marius Schwarz wrote:
> Am 17.10.21 um 22:31 schrieb Robby Callicotte via devel:
> > On Sunday, October 17, 2021 3:05:13 PM CDT Dan Čermák wrote:
> > > They are also much more intuitive to use for your average user/
> > > newcomer
> > > to Linux in contrast to a text interface (which will put them off
> > > when
> > > compared to the Windows or Ubuntu installer). Yes, a text
> > > interface
> > > is
> > > much more resource friendly, but imho that will cause more harm
> > > than
> > > actual benefit.
> > I totally agree.  If presented with only a text interface, I
> > believe
> > that new
> > Linux users would perceive the install experience as either too
> > daunting or
> > not up to par with other distros.
> > 
> > 
> 
> I think the real reason of my posting got out of sight:
> 
> it's not about how big the Installation Medium aka. iso-file is,
> it's how much stuff lands on the disk after the os is installed.
> 
> Of course Fedora primary target is the desktop PC with lots of
> diskspace 
> and ressources.
> 
> In case of the IoT mobility fraction, diskspace is limited and a 20
> GB 
> os is not desireable nor really useable on a phone.
> 
> i.E. all of the firmwarefiles are unneeded, no grub, no uefi, no 
> printersupport,
I actually use printer support on Android quite a lot - I don't think
we should regress on that.

>  no wacom-artpadsupport,
Actually, I regularly use the Wacom One[0] pen display with an Android
Tablet & I'm certainly looking forward to using it with a proper Linux
distro running mobile device. Actually, even the current PinePhone
model has HDMI out support - I need to try connecting my PinePhone the
tablet to it to see what happens.

>  no colormanagementdemons,
> and a lot of nice apps for a desktop, but not so practical on a phone
> i.e. Rythembox are not even the worst things. A "du -sh" showed a
> huge 
> lot of libs on the system /usr was 2.5g alone.  All those icons sets,
> fonts etc.etc. took a lot of space.  journald has no default maxsize,
> and it does not really help,
For comparison journald on Sailfish OS[1] (which is pretty close to a
regular Linux distro) is configured to only log to a circular buffer in
RAM. Good for storage space use and flash storage longevity, but
problematic if you need to debug something and don't manually dump the
current journal buffer right away.

>  when pkcon generates it's on caches besides 
> DNF ones.
I guess you could just configure both to have no caches ? It would make
all operations slower but unless both can work with static maximum
limits that seems like the only way at the moment.

> 
> The mobility has thrown out a lot of packages we don't need here, but
> thats only a fraction of what could go IMHO. Some folks helped to 
> identify unneeded packages, but a real mininal image in sense of used
> diskspace, is something else, I think .
Frankly, some mobile platforms seem rather too cut down these days - as
long as you don't needlessly spin the CPU (and thus quickyl drain the
battery) then storage use is not *that* problematic these days,
especially if you need to do a major system surgery. 

Also especially as more and more devices can be connected to a monitor
and mouse + keyboard, effectively becoming an ad-hoc semi desktop. Same
thing for ARM powered light notebooks (PineBook, etc.) or tablets with
detachable keyboards. There all the packages cut in the name of
*mobile* could be needed but missing.

> 
> IF, like in the dark ages of linux, a list exists of "needed for the
> os 
> to run" and "os can function without it" would exist, we could throw
> out 
> so much more.
> 
> ATM, i still see a long way to go for Linux on Phones, but Android 
> didn't do it overnight either.
Android also started with pretty low baseline - it hardly did usable
multitasking initially & had no support for showing more than one app
at once, not to mention support for connecting any perifferals. Native
app support was also quite poor and is still problematic to this day
due to the non-standard bionic c library. No support for widely used
GUI toolkits, forcing all apps to write a new UI just for Android.
No cross package dependencies, so apps need to bundle half the
Internet, etc.

IMHO Android, especially in its early form and largly in the present
one its not something we should strive to copy in 2021.

> 
> best regards,
> Marius Schwarz
Best Wishes

Martin

[0] https://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/wacom-one
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS

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