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List:       enlightenment-devel
Subject:    Re: [E-devel] Theme MUST be addressed
From:       "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml () obsidian-studios ! com>
Date:       2018-04-12 18:39:42
Message-ID: E1f6h8Z-0008KJ-5I () sfs-ml-1 ! v29 ! lw ! sourceforge ! com
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This as either delayed by S.F. or stuck in my spam proxy since Feb 28th.
I just received today, thus reply way late.

On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 13:54:53 +0900
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster@rasterman.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:37:58 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr."
> <wlt-ml@obsidian-studios.com> said:
> 
> > For those that voted for KDE, the majority voted dark.
> > http://www.strawpoll.me/12804942/r
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/66yznn/poll_dark_themes_vs_light_themes_kde_plasma/?st=jdt8a686&sh=535dd9f5 \
> > 
> 
> now that is very interesting. a direct poll from more than a handful
> of people (235 votes cast total) shows 71% in favor of dark. and
> that's not even like asking existing e users who might have chosen e
> because it's dark by default...

Yes they went chose for a dark theme not offered by default. They also
chose to answer a survey. Those maybe connected so not reflective of
the average person who would not take survey, change theme, etc.

> so at least i think that pretty much tells me that "Dark by default"
> at least is a good choice. 71% are happy. the other 29% are not. that
> is why we should offer color schemes (color classes) so you can make
> the other 29% happy too. that increases the # of people who are happy
> by 50% or so.

Regardless of the type of people taking the polls, that does seem to be
the trend. I seems other stuff is going that way. Seems more things are
going dark than light.

In a dark room, switching between the two is very noticeable. Plus on
most TV shows and Movies, the graphics typically displayed in systems
are usually dark based. Could be a cool factor due to the use there.

> > I think this helps really solidify the trend. Black uses less power
> > than white. Dark themes can have better battery life.
> > https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1882467  
> 
> Actually... only on OLED screens... just to be exact. lcd panels
> which is basically pretty much every monitor, laptop etc. ... won't
> matter. yes a few laptops have oled. you can get oled tv's now but
> its far from the majority of screens an e desktop runs on that would
> use the default theme. :)

Sure, but I don't think the future is LCD, its more OLED or the like.
Related to the discussion, seems the future trend could be dark vs
light in part due to changing display technology, battery life, etc.

> > Very likely manufactures are catching on. Better for battery life,
> > better for your eyes. Better all around.
> > 
> > If you think a theme is why people do not run E. I think you are
> > pretty far off base there.  It is a lack of applications more than
> > anything.  
> 
> i think despite our differences, 

Differences are always good, melding them is the magical  and very
difficult part.

> you are probably right here, mostly.  i think e's old-style
> beveled/gradient theme does put a bunch of people off. 
> i don't think the dark color does though.

That is likely the case and also seems to the trend. Which would make E
look older in that sense for sure.

> if more apps  existed that "fit in and work/look nice" then indeed
> it'd get more users. e can be improved in usability for sure as well
> - settings dialogs for starters, and i suspect this may have about as
> much effect on users as the theme currently does... just saying it's
> important.

I think that is what attracts people to like Bohdi and Elive, the
application refinement, menus, themes, etc. The finishing touches.

I plan to do my part for the apps side of things. Just will take a bit
of time as I get past some of the fundamental ones I am presently
working on. Then I will expand to others. Enjoy is next on my list.

> but improving the theme to be simpler to maintain, re-color and be
> flatter is a big improvement we should do. i think giving it
> out-sized results from doing this, or even becoming "light" will just
> be kidding ourselves.

For sure, just adding light now to current theme would make little to no
difference IMHO. Light as part of a new flat theme that is
customization I think is the money and way to go for sure.

I much liked being able to tweak theme colors and elements in KDE. In
Gnome/GTK stuff you tend to have to fallback to gtkrc/ini files. Not
bad but not as friendly per se as KDE. Likely difference of a UI
there. In E I ended up with my own theme based on another. I would
likely drop my theme in favor of tweaking the default theme.

Even with differences there is common ground there. I think most all
would agree on the direction thing are heading. Good stuff!

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.


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