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List:       quanta
Subject:    Re: [Quanta] [html]: How to set alt="" as default in <img>
From:       Andras Mantia <amantia () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-03-10 17:07:15
Message-ID: 200503101907.20588.amantia () kde ! org
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On Thursday 10 March 2005 16:42, obennett wrote:
> by broken page i think he means no indication of where your images
> are supposed to be
Right.

> but there is no indication that you have images present which is what
> the alt text is supposed to do. If you're going to include it just to
> make your page validate and not for the actual purpose of providing
> information necessary for users not able to see your images then you
> might as well not include it all really.
Exactly.

> > > Quanta does the same for every other attribute as well: if it's
> > > empty, it removes it.
> >
> > But I would consider the alt attribute as a special case. Or am I
> > wrong?

I don't see it to be special. I think there are other attributes in HTML 
and not only which are required, but many do not put there or put with 
an empty value as "it is not needed in most cases". I don't think 
Quanta should support bad programming habits. ;-) It follows the 
following paradigm, which is quite logical IMO: an attribute with an 
empty value is just the same as the tag without that attribute. 
Exception are those "boolean" attributes.

> to get as much information as possible. You also get to provide this
> information to users whose UA may not be able to or has been
> configured to not show images by default. Think of a mobile phone
> user who turns of images by default for example: quanta has included
> alt="" for various image descriptions and you forgotten to change
> them. The user is looking for an image and forgets that the browser
> is configured to not show images by default. Maybe he gets referred
> to a gallery and just assumes that it has not been finished yet and
> both you and he

This is what I wanted to tell as well.

> You seem to not be thinking about any browsers other than GUI ones
> which is ok since you know what your audience is likely to use. I'm
> definitely not about advocating someone use/do something they don't
> want to do just because they are being pressured into it. I
> personally fell that even though they may represent a small minority
> of users alternative users agents should be allowed to take away as
> much information from the sight as possible.

Right.

> That would be the perfect time to use alt. alt="vacation image 1" etc
> is far more useful than just alt="" for a text browser.

I agree.

> > Or "to the top" or "Home" links on the page, where you put
> > additional little images, a non graphic ua would see or read:
> >   to the topto the top
> > *that* would be abroken page.
> >
> > Or images where you already provide a describing text, the alt tag
> > is completely redundant here:

It might be redundant but it appears where the image should. So it's not 
redundant.

> Hope I haven't been too annoying thanks for letting a kid rant a
> little :-) /me walks away and gets back to work...

I agree with your rant if that makes you happy. :-))
I can understand the case with spacer/formatting images, but that is the 
*special* case and should be avoided. And in those special cases I told 
to use alt=" ". In all the other cases it makes sense to add an alt tag 
and does not make sense to have alt="". This is my opinion, and 
sincerely I don't want to treat <img alt=""> differently from <foo 
fooattr="">. 

Andras

-- 
Quanta Plus developer - http://quanta.sourceforge.net
K Desktop Environment - http://www.kde.org

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