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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: bikeshedding by a list veteran
From:       Janne Ojaniemi <janne.ojaniemi () nbl ! fi>
Date:       2006-03-17 23:07:54
Message-ID: 200603180107.54746.janne.ojaniemi () nbl ! fi
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On Friday 17 March 2006 04:01, Thomas Zander wrote:
> On Friday 17 March 2006 10:26, Janne Ojaniemi wrote:
> > And is b.k.o really the right place for more or less vague ideas? many
> > of the great ideas that were born in kde-artists.org started out with
> > something relatively vague and modest, but only later they grew in to
> > something great.
>
> Usability reports and good usability ideas tend to not start out vague;
> and if you think they do then maybe thats the reason the results of this
> list have been quite unsatisfactory.

But I'm not talking about "usability reports" (like the ones made by 
openusability). Rather, I'm talking about discussions about "How could we 
make this thing here easier to use?" And what I quite specificly said is that 
those discussions have usually been happening OUTSIDE this list (like in 
kde-artists), with the end-results being posted in some mailinglist (not 
necessarily this one). I fail to see how someone could say that this list is 
not working if some people are talking usability-related things in 
kde-artists.org. How do discussions at kde-artists.org (or some other place) 
matter to this list at all?

Hell, the whole point of this sub-discussion was "user suggestions". So we are 
not even talking about "usability-reports" here, but suggestions from users.

Yes, those discussions could start out pretty vague, but they could end up 
being pretty detailed and interesting. Hell, I made a detailed suggestion 
regarding future KDE-desktop based on one of those vague discussions in 
kde-artists, and few weeks later Zack Rusin described what KDE4-desktop is 
going to be like, and it was practically 1:1 identical to the suggestion I 
made at kde-artists earlier (to be honest, I have no idea that are the two 
ideas connected somehow. If they are, cool. If they aren't.... well, great 
minds think alike ;)).

Some people clearly want detailed usability-reports as made by openusability. 
And there are others that want to discuss some things that are a bit more 
"vague" ("How could we make this thing easier? What is the rationale behind 
this thing? What do you think of this idea?"). And those have usually been 
taking place in kde-artists.org (or some other place), where there are (or 
were) dedicated forum for usability-issues. And those forums were thriving 
with lots of active discussions and lots of interesting ideas! Of course they 
weren't usability-REPORTS as such, but they were excellent ideas and 
contributions regardless.

But, if we wanted to have those discussions in a mailinglist, how about 
KDE-quality? The purpose of that list seems a bit vague to me ("Ideas that 
make KDE rock" IIRC). I'm still waiting for the follower of kde-artists.org 
to materialize....
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