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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: bikeshedding by a list veteran
From:       Celeste Lyn Paul <celeste () kde ! org>
Date:       2006-03-15 13:14:20
Message-ID: 200603150814.31449.celeste () kde ! org
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On Wednesday 15 March 2006 02:51, janne.ojaniemi@nbl.fi wrote:
> > Should we do it just because Tog said
> > we
> > should? Thats silly.
>
> Yes, it is ;). But the point is that if you ask 10 experts what should be
> done, you would propably get 10 different answers. So how does the project
> choose which experts to believe? Of course there are the experts that are
> part of the project, and they have the ear of the developers. But what if
> they are wrong?

the thing is we dont have 10 experts sayind 10 different answers.  we have 
about 5 or 6 experts who are saying maybe 2 or 3 different things which are 
fairly similar and then 50 non-experts arguing with us.

>
> > In reality, yeah it kind of does.  These guys put their life in to their
> > software and arnt going to change it on some whim from a stranger.
>
> But this begs the question: if some usability-expert (and not some random
> user) makes a suggestion to a developer, and the developer doesn't
> implement his suggestion, then doesn't that mean that we are then relying
> the developers knowledge regarding usability, and not the experts?
> Developers know code, they might not know a thing about usability. But
> still, they are the final authority when it comes to usability.

unless you can implement the change in code and know someone who will commit 
it, the developers really are the final authority.  that is the nature of the 
beast.  there is no higher power to force them to implement the changes, so 
unless you make a good case for yourself you are SOL. OSS usability has 
really come a long way in the past year to gain acceptance with the community 
and the developers, but there are still a large portion of developers who are 
wary about usability and waiting a bit longer to conform because of problems 
we are currently discussing.  they have no trust in usability so it seems 
fair they arent comfortable implementing it.

> > We stay on topic and discuss usability issues in a competent manner. 
> > That was
> > always the goal of the list, it has just never been enforced.
>
> How do you enforce something like that on an open mailing-list? forcibly
> un-subscribing and banning people who posts pointless drivel (well,
> "pointless drivel" is in the eye of the beholder)? I'm not taking a stand
> whether that is a good or bad idea at this point.

this list has the ability and right to be moderated.   currently that is 
turned not implemented and any subscriber can freely post.  

-- 
Celeste Lyn Paul
KDE Usability Project
usability.kde.org

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