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List: kde-panel-devel
Subject: Re: When should there be a screen brightness OSD?
From: Kai Uwe Broulik <kde () privat ! broulik ! de>
Date: 2014-01-21 21:45:44
Message-ID: E1W5j8l-0005Ky-EC () smtprelay02 ! ispgateway ! de
[Download RAW message or body]
Hi,
+1 as well!
Especially it popping up on session start where the compositor isn't fully ready. :/
So to summarize:
- never ever show it when the brightness changes automatically (session start, mouse \
movement, screen timeout, ...)
- if user changes, it show the OSD on the primary/internal monitor as this is \
probably the affected one
When dragging the slider in the battery monitor it shouldn't be shown either, the \
slider (and the dimming screem, of course) provides the feedback already.
Cheers,
Kai Uwe
(Oh, you can actually tell the Android E-Mail client to default to Reply All)
Am 21.01.2014 22:25 schrieb Martin Klapetek <martin.klapetek@gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer<colomar@autistici.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Saturday 18 January 2014 13:15:18 Martin Klapetek wrote:
> >
> > > > > Truth is you don't need to know the /exact/ brightness or volume level
> > > > > in
> > > > > fullscreen video, you simply fiddle with it until it suits you. In this
> > > > > case it's maybe not as much about showing the exact percentage, but
> > > > > about
> > > > > providing visual feedback that you hit the correct keys and that they
> > > > > are
> > > > > working - I can imagine cases where users will press it couple times
> > > > > more
> > > > > to actually check if the brightness controls do work.
> > > >
> > > > The main problem I used to have is when powerdevil changes the brightness,
> > > > especially when e.g. a TV is connected to the system. Kind of useless
> > > > then.
> > >
> > > I thought about exactly this case. But if you disable the OSD in "passive"
> > > actions, you might also miss that the computer is about to power off your
> > > display (the brightness goes down every once in a while and when it's at 0,
> > > DPMS will kick soon...by default). So I guess you do want some kind of
> > > notification on external TV in case you left your power management enabled.
> >
> > The moment I read screen brightness OSD, I thought "Ah yes, that annoying
> > thing, now it's the time to discuss it!"
> >
> > Honestly: Whenever I'm working on a laptop on battery, or - far worse still -
> > on my WeTab with its super-aggressive screen powersaving, that screen
> > brightness OSD annoys the crap out of me. Devices on battery tend to reduce
> > brightness pretty quickly (and no matter how I fiddle with PowerDevil settings,
> > that changes exactly nothing), so whenever I read some text, screen brightness
> > is reduced a little every few seconds, each time showing that damn OSD on top
> > of the text I'm reading. And of course whenever I move the mouse, the OSD
> > shows again.
> >
> > So let's have a close look at this. What information do I get from that OSD if
> > it merely responds to automatic brightness reduction due to power management?
> > - That brightness is changed. Well, I can see that, right?
> > - To which level it is changed. Well, why would I care? Apart from the numbers
> > being unreliable (on my laptop, 0% brightness is still bright enough to read
> > when logically, it should be pitch black), the only thing I care about is
> > whether it's still bright enough for me (in which case I do nothing) or too
> > dark for what I'm doing right now (in which case I move the mouse).
> > - That my screen might be turned off soon. Well, as Martin G. pointed out: If
> > the screen ever turns off while I'm watching a video, that sucks, and an OSD
> > telling me that this is going to happen soon will not make the situation any
> > less unpleasant
> >
> > So, to be provocative: I would not only suppress the screen brightness OSD if
> > there is a full-screen application running, but instead I would not ever show
> > it when screen brightness is changed automatically. When it's changed
> > manually, the OSD makes sense to give the user feedback on their action, but
> > automatic screen brightness reduction is not something people need to be told
> > about, since they see it.
> > Have you ever seen a mobile OS showing an OSD every time the brightness
> > changes? I haven't, and since Plasma Active I know why: Because it would be
> > annoying as hell.
>
> Amen, brother.
>
>
> >
> > Does anyone have an argument pro OSD on automatic brightness change which does
> > not just reflect an underlying problem (such as the screen turning off while you
> > watch a movie)?
>
> I totally agree with you. I'm all for leaving it only for manual changes. Also I've \
> removed the label now too, it doesn't tell anything useful really imho.
> Cheers
>
> --
>
> Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer
Am 21.01.2014 22:25 schrieb Martin Klapetek <martin.klapetek@gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer <colomar@autistici.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Saturday 18 January 2014 13:15:18 Martin Klapetek wrote:
> >
> > > > > Truth is you don't need to know the /exact/ brightness or volume level
> > > > > in
> > > > > fullscreen video, you simply fiddle with it until it suits you. In this
> > > > > case it's maybe not as much about showing the exact percentage, but
> > > > > about
> > > > > providing visual feedback that you hit the correct keys and that they
> > > > > are
> > > > > working - I can imagine cases where users will press it couple times
> > > > > more
> > > > > to actually check if the brightness controls do work.
> > > >
> > > > The main problem I used to have is when powerdevil changes the brightness,
> > > > especially when e.g. a TV is connected to the system. Kind of useless
> > > > then.
> > >
> > > I thought about exactly this case. But if you disable the OSD in "passive"
> > > actions, you might also miss that the computer is about to power off your
> > > display (the brightness goes down every once in a while and when it's at 0,
> > > DPMS will kick soon...by default). So I guess you do want some kind of
> > > notification on external TV in case you left your power management enabled.
> >
> > The moment I read screen brightness OSD, I thought "Ah yes, that annoying
> > thing, now it's the time to discuss it!"
> >
> > Honestly: Whenever I'm working on a laptop on battery, or - far worse still -
> > on my WeTab with its super-aggressive screen powersaving, that screen
> > brightness OSD annoys the crap out of me. Devices on battery tend to reduce
> > brightness pretty quickly (and no matter how I fiddle with PowerDevil settings,
> > that changes exactly nothing), so whenever I read some text, screen brightness
> > is reduced a little every few seconds, each time showing that damn OSD on top
> > of the text I'm reading. And of course whenever I move the mouse, the OSD
> > shows again.
> >
> > So let's have a close look at this. What information do I get from that OSD if
> > it merely responds to automatic brightness reduction due to power management?
> > - That brightness is changed. Well, I can see that, right?
> > - To which level it is changed. Well, why would I care? Apart from the numbers
> > being unreliable (on my laptop, 0% brightness is still bright enough to read
> > when logically, it should be pitch black), the only thing I care about is
> > whether it's still bright enough for me (in which case I do nothing) or too
> > dark for what I'm doing right now (in which case I move the mouse).
> > - That my screen might be turned off soon. Well, as Martin G. pointed out: If
> > the screen ever turns off while I'm watching a video, that sucks, and an OSD
> > telling me that this is going to happen soon will not make the situation any
> > less unpleasant
> >
> > So, to be provocative: I would not only suppress the screen brightness OSD if
> > there is a full-screen application running, but instead I would not ever show
> > it when screen brightness is changed automatically. When it's changed
> > manually, the OSD makes sense to give the user feedback on their action, but
> > automatic screen brightness reduction is not something people need to be told
> > about, since they see it.
> > Have you ever seen a mobile OS showing an OSD every time the brightness
> > changes? I haven't, and since Plasma Active I know why: Because it would be
> > annoying as hell.
>
>
> Amen, brother.
>
> >
> > Does anyone have an argument pro OSD on automatic brightness change which does
> > not just reflect an underlying problem (such as the screen turning off while you
> > watch a movie)?
>
>
> I totally agree with you. I'm all for leaving it only for manual changes. Also I've \
> removed the label now too, it doesn't tell anything useful really imho.
> Cheers
> --
> Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer
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