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List: kde-frameworks-devel
Subject: Re: Review Request 127462: Add support for XDG_*_HOME enviroment variables.
From: Jarosław_Staniek <staniek () kde ! org>
Date: 2016-03-25 11:01:57
Message-ID: 20160325110157.21226.30346 () mimi ! kde ! org
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> On March 24, 2016, 10:15 a.m., Jarosław Staniek wrote:
> > My thoughts mostly related to non-Plasma, non-XDG run environments.
> >
> > KF5 is a great addition, in hierarchy often sitting aside of Qt, not a part of \
> > XDG-compliant desktop. As such we can't say too much about the underlying OS. It \
> > may be XDG-compliant but athis can be a decission at various levels: by \
> > application developer or on deployment. Things can of course also change after \
> > the binary is compiled.
> > It's hard to see any benefit that apps 'pretend' being XDG-compliant by setting \
> > vartiables this way on, say, MS Windows or Mac. Qt applications on these systems \
> > do not traditionally alter the OS' paradigm, they are.. just apps, as native as \
> > possible/reasonable. Example: there are portable apps (on an USB stick) - I \
> > believe we can benefit if we help making them. These apps choose not to integrate \
> > too much with what's found on the system, often the user account is shared or \
> > temporary.
> > Setting the variable makes KConfig closer to specific groups of desktop, which is \
> > a a small step back. People may be interested in KConfig lib as a general purpose \
> > utility in their apps. I'd compare setting the variable this way to setting \
> > Windows' USERPROFILE variable on Linux systems, just because it's standard under \
> > the former and under Wine. it does not hurt but leaves bad taste.
> > So the behaviour at least shall be ifdef'd and the ifdef shall depend on OS for \
> > which we're building. But if the same binary should behave well in various \
> > environments, I am unsure about hardcoding the behaviour. Also I am not sure if \
> > this behaviour should be ON by default. I'd rather have it OFF if it's present at \
> > all.
>
> Sandro Knauß wrote:
> Well I see it the other way around. Without support of XDG variables replacement, \
> we need to use env varaible that are available on all systems f.ex. $HOME, so the \
> only way to set the datalocaltion to write it hardcoded in the config to \
> $HOME/.local/share. This is really ony true for linux for others OSes you want to \
> have other diretories. So now we are able to use XDG_DATA_HOME to be used in \
> kconfig and it will be replaced for linux to $HOME/.local/share, for windows to \
> C:/Users/<USER>/AppData/Local and so on. We use QStandardsPaths for replacing so if \
> the replacement is not correct for an OS this is a bug on Qt side, that should be \
> fixed :D
> And I can't see how this support can harm anyone - if the env is set this is \
> prefered and only if it is not set it is replaced. No dependecy is added and \
> applications are free to not use it at all. If you use XDG_*_HOME without this \
> patch you will return an empty string for it:
> i[$e] = $XDG_DATA_HOME/bla
>
> -> will return /bla
>
> with the patch you will get:
> $HOME/.local/share/bla ( for linux)
> C:/Users/<USER>/AppData/Local/bla ( for windows)
> [...]
Before we discuss anything, let's narrow to non-Unix OSes (considering Mac OS X as \
non-Unix):
- Does these OSes use XDG_xxxx to locate anything? I can't spot.
- Isn't it misleading to use the XDG_xxxx variables to pass the locations on these \
OSes? Don't we have a choice?
Digression: I am asking because one quality attribute of KF5 for could be to behave \
or "think" like Qt would, without spreading a "Unix-y" / "XDG" feel when not really \
necessary. Non-Unix OSes have own equivalents for many things (e.g. xdg-open), at \
times these equivalents can be found inferior but we, not being authors of the OSes, \
can just say "let them be such". We have enough of layers and emulators, subsystems \
e.g. on Windows (see .NET or chrome-based hybrid apps). Frameworks for developing \
native apps on these OSes shall not attempt to fix these system facilities but just \
integrate. Users wanting XDG experience have choice to use XDG-compliant systems...
Summing up, an #ifdef and update of documentation would be nice. My 2c...
- Jarosław
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/127462/#review93920
-----------------------------------------------------------
On March 22, 2016, 4:23 p.m., Sandro Knauß wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/127462/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Updated March 22, 2016, 4:23 p.m.)
>
>
> Review request for KDE Frameworks and Matthew Dawson.
>
>
> Repository: kconfig
>
>
> Description
> -------
>
> According to freedesktop specification XDG_*_HOME env varaible should be
> replaced, if they are not setted with default values.
>
> https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
>
> as qgetenv only calls getenv, so no path is traslated to it default values. So we \
> have to add this replacement manually. This would help to use XDG_*_HOME more often \
> in configfiles.
>
> Diffs
> -----
>
> autotests/kconfigtest.cpp e92197f3be57ead47b70ca5d040474e7a554c416
> src/core/kconfig.cpp 07fa6f552c61c52cc1dd64a1c5fb0e2f00873d50
>
> Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/127462/diff/
>
>
> Testing
> -------
>
> Adding tests for XDG_*_HOME variables.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandro Knauß
>
>
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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/127462/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/127462/</a>
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<br />
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <p style="margin-top: 0;">On March 24th, 2016, 10:15 a.m. CET, <b>Jarosław \
Staniek</b> wrote:</p> <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid \
#d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">My thoughts mostly related to non-Plasma, non-XDG run \
environments.</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">KF5 is a great addition, in hierarchy often sitting \
aside of Qt, not a part of XDG-compliant desktop. As such we can't say too much about \
the underlying OS. It may be XDG-compliant but athis can be a decission at various \
levels: by application developer or on deployment. Things can of course also change \
after the binary is compiled.</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">It's hard to see any \
benefit that apps 'pretend' being XDG-compliant by setting vartiables this way on, \
say, MS Windows or Mac. Qt applications on these systems do not traditionally alter \
the OS' paradigm, they are.. just apps, as native as possible/reasonable. Example: \
there are portable apps (on an USB stick) - I believe we can benefit if we help \
making them. These apps choose not to integrate too much with what's found on the \
system, often the user account is shared or temporary.</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">Setting the variable makes KConfig closer to specific groups of desktop, \
which is a a small step back. People may be interested in KConfig lib as a general \
purpose utility in their apps. I'd compare setting the variable this way to setting \
Windows' USERPROFILE variable on Linux systems, just because it's standard under the \
former and under Wine. it does not hurt but leaves bad taste.</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">So \
the behaviour at least shall be ifdef'd and the ifdef shall depend on OS for which \
we're building. But if the same binary should behave well in various environments, I \
am unsure about hardcoding the behaviour. Also I am not sure if this behaviour should \
be ON by default. I'd rather have it OFF if it's present at all.</p></pre> \
</blockquote>
<p>On March 24th, 2016, 2:12 p.m. CET, <b>Sandro Knauß</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Well \
I see it the other way around. Without support of XDG variables replacement, we need \
to use env varaible that are available on all systems f.ex. $HOME, so the only way to \
set the datalocaltion to write it hardcoded in the config to $HOME/.local/share. This \
is really ony true for linux for others OSes you want to have other diretories. So \
now we are able to use XDG_DATA_HOME to be used in kconfig and it will be replaced \
for linux to $HOME/.local/share, for windows to C:/Users/<USER>/AppData/Local \
and so on. We use QStandardsPaths for replacing so if the replacement is not correct \
for an OS this is a bug on Qt side, that should be fixed :D</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">And I \
can't see how this support can harm anyone - if the env is set this is prefered and \
only if it is not set it is replaced. No dependecy is added and applications are free \
to not use it at all. If you use XDG_*_HOME without this patch you will return an \
empty string for it:</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: \
0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">i[$e] = $XDG_DATA_HOME/bla</p> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">-> will return /bla</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">with the patch you will \
get: $HOME/.local/share/bla ( for linux)
C:/Users/<USER>/AppData/Local/bla ( for windows)
[...]</p></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">Before we discuss anything, let's narrow to non-Unix OSes (considering Mac \
OS X as non-Unix):
- Does these OSes use XDG_xxxx to locate anything? I can't spot.
- Isn't it misleading to use the XDG_xxxx variables to pass the locations on these \
OSes? Don't we have a choice?</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Digression: I am asking \
because one quality attribute of KF5 for could be to behave or "think" like Qt would, \
without spreading a "Unix-y" / "XDG" feel when not really necessary. Non-Unix OSes \
have own equivalents for many things (e.g. xdg-open), at times these equivalents can \
be found inferior but we, not being authors of the OSes, can just say "let them be \
such". We have enough of layers and emulators, subsystems e.g. on Windows (see .NET \
or chrome-based hybrid apps). Frameworks for developing native apps on these OSes \
shall not attempt to fix these system facilities but just integrate. Users wanting \
XDG experience have choice to use XDG-compliant systems...</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">Summing up, an #ifdef and update of documentation would be nice. My \
2c...</p></pre> <br />
<p>- Jarosław</p>
<br />
<p>On March 22nd, 2016, 4:23 p.m. CET, Sandro Knauß wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="12" style="border: \
1px #888a85 solid; border-radius: 6px; -moz-border-radius: 6px; \
-webkit-border-radius: 6px;"> <tr>
<td>
<div>Review request for KDE Frameworks and Matthew Dawson.</div>
<div>By Sandro Knauß.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated March 22, 2016, 4:23 p.m.</i></p>
<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
kconfig
</div>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" \
style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">According to freedesktop specification XDG_*_HOME env \
varaible should be replaced, if they are not setted with default values.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">as qgetenv only calls getenv, so no path is traslated \
to it default values. So we have to add this replacement manually. This would help to \
use XDG_*_HOME more often in configfiles.</p></pre> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: \
1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">Adding tests for XDG_*_HOME variables.</p></pre> \
</td> </tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>autotests/kconfigtest.cpp <span style="color: \
grey">(e92197f3be57ead47b70ca5d040474e7a554c416)</span></li>
<li>src/core/kconfig.cpp <span style="color: \
grey">(07fa6f552c61c52cc1dd64a1c5fb0e2f00873d50)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/127462/diff/" style="margin-left: \
3em;">View Diff</a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
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