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List: kde-edu-devel
Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: kde-edu Digest, Vol 74, Issue 20
From: Rahim Fakir <rahim.g.fakir () gmail ! com>
Date: 2009-05-30 1:07:28
Message-ID: 44bb9eb20905291807h77b1bb55nb1f5d1f41d802edb () mail ! gmail ! com
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Does anyone knows about software improvement to Nokia N80?
Pls keep sending me samples of KTurtle
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:00 AM, <kde-edu-request@mail.kde.org> wrote:
> Send kde-edu mailing list submissions to
> kde-edu@mail.kde.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> kde-edu-request@mail.kde.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> kde-edu-owner@mail.kde.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of kde-edu digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (RalfGesellensetter)
> 2. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (Niels Slot)
> 3. Error in KDE site (Alexey Shildyakov)
> 4. Re: Error in KDE site (Albert Astals Cid)
> 5. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (Mauricio Piacentini)
> 6. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (Mauricio Piacentini)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 22:40:38 +0200
> From: RalfGesellensetter <rgx@gmx.de>
> Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle
> To: kde-edu@kde.org
> Message-ID: <200905282240.39134.rgx@gmx.de>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Donnerstag 28 Mai 2009 17:07:22 Mauricio Piacentini wrote:
> > settheme "Egyptian"
> > setsprite 1, "Pharaoh"
> > setsprite 2, "Crocodile"
> > setbackground "Sand"
> > ... and make them run into each other :)
>
> grand idea! just ideal for kids!
> wasn't aware of these possibilities with multiple sprites.
>
> are sprites addressed in a oo way, then - or rather in name spaces?
>
> oo:
> pharao.turnright 90
> crocodile.turnleft 20
>
> name spaces:
> talkto crocodile
> turnleft 20
> forward 200
> talkto pharao
> turnright 90
>
> paralelle scripts (as known from scratch/smalltalk)
> would mean to write one script each per sprite.
>
> this could solve the problem on how to adapt scripts to other themes.
> if you are in the forest and rabbits hunt after foxes, you just need to
> reassign your scripts to the sprites.
>
> but:
> parallele scripts might get out of sync if there is no action/event
> concept.
>
> till now, most use cases for kturtle focussed on the drawn pattern
> (squares,
> stars, fractals), and at more complex drawings, you will need max speed
> where
> you don't see the sprite at all.
>
> chasing foxes or crocodiles is a different - more gameish - approach that
> might call for action and event based input. Maybe not too compatible with
> logo concepts?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:14:56 +0200
> From: Niels Slot <nielsslot@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle
> To: kde-edu@kde.org
> Message-ID:
> <f5f15dc00905281414h1e78afb4p1f2de2e6a6c891f2@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> 2009/5/28 RalfGesellensetter <rgx@gmx.de>
>
> > On Donnerstag 28 Mai 2009 17:07:22 Mauricio Piacentini wrote:
> > > settheme "Egyptian"
> > > setsprite 1, "Pharaoh"
> > > setsprite 2, "Crocodile"
> > > setbackground "Sand"
> > > ... and make them run into each other :)
> >
> > grand idea! just ideal for kids!
> > wasn't aware of these possibilities with multiple sprites.
> >
> > are sprites addressed in a oo way, then - or rather in name spaces?
> >
> > oo:
> > pharao.turnright 90
> > crocodile.turnleft 20
> >
> > name spaces:
> > talkto crocodile
> > turnleft 20
> > forward 200
> > talkto pharao
> > turnright 90
>
>
> My code from a few months ago allowed the usage of OO-like commands. You
> could do something like:
>
> turtle1 = turtle
> turtle1.forward 100
> turtle2 = turtle
> turtle2.backward 100
>
> This would create two additional turtles, and move them both by 100 steps.
>
> We didn't continue this because Cies felt that we shouldn't do OO-like
> things if we couldn't do OO completely. And I can agree with him on that.
> Maybe we should look at the 'talkto' syntax.
>
>
> >
> >
> > paralelle scripts (as known from scratch/smalltalk)
> > would mean to write one script each per sprite.
> >
> > this could solve the problem on how to adapt scripts to other themes.
> > if you are in the forest and rabbits hunt after foxes, you just need to
> > reassign your scripts to the sprites.
> >
> > but:
> > parallele scripts might get out of sync if there is no action/event
> > concept.
>
>
> Parallel scripts seem to complicated to me. KTurtle is meant as a start
> before learning a real programming language like Java, Ruby or Python. I
> don't want to introduce something that's not going to be in the first few
> lessons of the real programming language.
>
>
> >
> >
> > till now, most use cases for kturtle focussed on the drawn pattern
> > (squares,
> > stars, fractals), and at more complex drawings, you will need max speed
> > where
> > you don't see the sprite at all.
> >
> > chasing foxes or crocodiles is a different - more gameish - approach that
> > might call for action and event based input. Maybe not too compatible
> with
> > logo concepts?
>
>
> In the Logo variant I used as a child I could actually do action based
> things. I could for example have a turtle running around the screen,
> controlled with the arrow keys (this was in the last chapter of the book
> though).
>
> I'm not sure we want to be able to do such things in KTurtle. Having an
> animation of two turtles chasing each other is fine. But if where adding
> interaction and stuff, then we might have to reconsider what KTurtle is
> meant for.
>
>
> Niels
>
>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kde-edu mailing list
> > kde-edu@mail.kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 01:17:54 +0400
> From: Alexey Shildyakov <ashl1future@gmail.com>
> Subject: [kde-edu]: Error in KDE site
> To: kde-edu@kde.org
> Message-ID:
> <ef43102f0905281417o2af57906u1c140b28e80f5a4e@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Broken links for KDE projects (Parley, KWordQuiz, Kanagram and KHangman) on
> page: http://edu.kde.org/contrib/kvtml2/kvtml2.php
>
> --
> Best Regards, Alexey Shildyakov.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-edu/attachments/20090529/c1e4b5c7/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:59:47 +0200
> From: Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org>
> Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Error in KDE site
> To: kde-edu@kde.org, Alexey Shildyakov <ashl1future@gmail.com>
> Message-ID: <200905282359.50042.aacid@kde.org>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
>
> A Dijous, 28 de maig de 2009, Alexey Shildyakov va escriure:
> > Broken links for KDE projects (Parley, KWordQuiz, Kanagram and KHangman)
> on
> > page: http://edu.kde.org/contrib/kvtml2/kvtml2.php
>
> Fixed.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Albert
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:15:49 -0300
> From: Mauricio Piacentini <piacentini@kde.org>
> Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle
> To: kde-edu@kde.org
> Message-ID:
> <90c3da860905281515l6d5bd813y5d4ee6db7ce13091@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The idea of OO was discussed, but in the end I think we settled to
> implement initially the "talkto" approach. It is more linear and does
> not require any modification in concepts or in the other commands: it
> just makes one sprite the "active" one.
> I agree with Niels that we should probably stop at that point, instead
> of adding complexity. At least for the next step, then we can maybe
> verify how people are using it and then continue to build.
>
> Regards,
> Mauricio Piacentini
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:16:17 -0300
> From: Mauricio Piacentini <piacentini@kde.org>
> Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle
> To: kde-edu@kde.org
> Message-ID:
> <90c3da860905281516k7e4d6dcqb32a201a0ba53535@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Oh, btw I think Niels is right about the theme versus sprite
> implementation. We could probably just allow people to load simple
> sprites at first.
>
> Regards,
> Mauricio Piacentini
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kde-edu mailing list
> kde-edu@mail.kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu
>
>
> End of kde-edu Digest, Vol 74, Issue 20
> ***************************************
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Does anyone knows about software improvement to Nokia N80?<br>Pls keep sending me \
samples of KTurtle<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:00 AM, \
<span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:kde-edu-request@mail.kde.org">kde-edu-request@mail.kde.org</a>></span> \
wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Send kde-edu mailing list \
submissions to<br> <a \
href="mailto:kde-edu@mail.kde.org">kde-edu@mail.kde.org</a><br> <br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu</a><br> or, via email, \
send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:kde-edu-request@mail.kde.org">kde-edu-request@mail.kde.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:kde-edu-owner@mail.kde.org">kde-edu-owner@mail.kde.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of kde-edu digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (RalfGesellensetter)<br>
2. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (Niels Slot)<br>
3. Error in KDE site (Alexey Shildyakov)<br>
4. Re: Error in KDE site (Albert Astals Cid)<br>
5. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (Mauricio Piacentini)<br>
6. Re: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle (Mauricio Piacentini)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 22:40:38 +0200<br>
From: RalfGesellensetter <<a href="mailto:rgx@gmx.de">rgx@gmx.de</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kde-edu@kde.org">kde-edu@kde.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:200905282240.39134.rgx@gmx.de">200905282240.39134.rgx@gmx.de</a>><br>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
On Donnerstag 28 Mai 2009 17:07:22 Mauricio Piacentini wrote:<br>
> settheme "Egyptian"<br>
> setsprite 1, "Pharaoh"<br>
> setsprite 2, "Crocodile"<br>
> setbackground "Sand"<br>
> ... and make them run into each other :)<br>
<br>
grand idea! just ideal for kids!<br>
wasn't aware of these possibilities with multiple sprites.<br>
<br>
are sprites addressed in a oo way, then - or rather in name spaces?<br>
<br>
oo:<br>
pharao.turnright 90<br>
crocodile.turnleft 20<br>
<br>
name spaces:<br>
talkto crocodile<br>
turnleft 20<br>
forward 200<br>
talkto pharao<br>
turnright 90<br>
<br>
paralelle scripts (as known from scratch/smalltalk)<br>
would mean to write one script each per sprite.<br>
<br>
this could solve the problem on how to adapt scripts to other themes.<br>
if you are in the forest and rabbits hunt after foxes, you just need to<br>
reassign your scripts to the sprites.<br>
<br>
but:<br>
parallele scripts might get out of sync if there is no action/event concept.<br>
<br>
till now, most use cases for kturtle focussed on the drawn pattern (squares,<br>
stars, fractals), and at more complex drawings, you will need max speed where<br>
you don't see the sprite at all.<br>
<br>
chasing foxes or crocodiles is a different - more gameish - approach that<br>
might call for action and event based input. Maybe not too compatible with<br>
logo concepts?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:14:56 +0200<br>
From: Niels Slot <<a \
href="mailto:nielsslot@gmail.com">nielsslot@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kde-edu@kde.org">kde-edu@kde.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:f5f15dc00905281414h1e78afb4p1f2de2e6a6c891f2@mail.gmail.com">f5f15dc00905281414h1e78afb4p1f2de2e6a6c891f2@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
2009/5/28 RalfGesellensetter <<a href="mailto:rgx@gmx.de">rgx@gmx.de</a>><br>
<br>
> On Donnerstag 28 Mai 2009 17:07:22 Mauricio Piacentini wrote:<br>
> > settheme "Egyptian"<br>
> > setsprite 1, "Pharaoh"<br>
> > setsprite 2, "Crocodile"<br>
> > setbackground "Sand"<br>
> > ... and make them run into each other :)<br>
><br>
> grand idea! just ideal for kids!<br>
> wasn't aware of these possibilities with multiple sprites.<br>
><br>
> are sprites addressed in a oo way, then - or rather in name spaces?<br>
><br>
> oo:<br>
> pharao.turnright 90<br>
> crocodile.turnleft 20<br>
><br>
> name spaces:<br>
> talkto crocodile<br>
> turnleft 20<br>
> forward 200<br>
> talkto pharao<br>
> turnright 90<br>
<br>
<br>
My code from a few months ago allowed the usage of OO-like commands. You<br>
could do something like:<br>
<br>
turtle1 = turtle<br>
turtle1.forward 100<br>
turtle2 = turtle<br>
turtle2.backward 100<br>
<br>
This would create two additional turtles, and move them both by 100 steps.<br>
<br>
We didn't continue this because Cies felt that we shouldn't do OO-like<br>
things if we couldn't do OO completely. And I can agree with him on that.<br>
Maybe we should look at the 'talkto' syntax.<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> paralelle scripts (as known from scratch/smalltalk)<br>
> would mean to write one script each per sprite.<br>
><br>
> this could solve the problem on how to adapt scripts to other themes.<br>
> if you are in the forest and rabbits hunt after foxes, you just need to<br>
> reassign your scripts to the sprites.<br>
><br>
> but:<br>
> parallele scripts might get out of sync if there is no action/event<br>
> concept.<br>
<br>
<br>
Parallel scripts seem to complicated to me. KTurtle is meant as a start<br>
before learning a real programming language like Java, Ruby or Python. I<br>
don't want to introduce something that's not going to be in the first few<br>
lessons of the real programming language.<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> till now, most use cases for kturtle focussed on the drawn pattern<br>
> (squares,<br>
> stars, fractals), and at more complex drawings, you will need max speed<br>
> where<br>
> you don't see the sprite at all.<br>
><br>
> chasing foxes or crocodiles is a different - more gameish - approach that<br>
> might call for action and event based input. Maybe not too compatible with<br>
> logo concepts?<br>
<br>
<br>
In the Logo variant I used as a child I could actually do action based<br>
things. I could for example have a turtle running around the screen,<br>
controlled with the arrow keys (this was in the last chapter of the book<br>
though).<br>
<br>
I'm not sure we want to be able to do such things in KTurtle. Having an<br>
animation of two turtles chasing each other is fine. But if where adding<br>
interaction and stuff, then we might have to reconsider what KTurtle is<br>
meant for.<br>
<br>
<br>
Niels<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> kde-edu mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:kde-edu@mail.kde.org">kde-edu@mail.kde.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu</a><br> ><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 01:17:54 +0400<br>
From: Alexey Shildyakov <<a \
href="mailto:ashl1future@gmail.com">ashl1future@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [kde-edu]: Error in KDE site<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kde-edu@kde.org">kde-edu@kde.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:ef43102f0905281417o2af57906u1c140b28e80f5a4e@mail.gmail.com">ef43102f0905281417o2af57906u1c140b28e80f5a4e@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Broken links for KDE projects (Parley, KWordQuiz, Kanagram and KHangman) on<br>
page: <a href="http://edu.kde.org/contrib/kvtml2/kvtml2.php" \
target="_blank">http://edu.kde.org/contrib/kvtml2/kvtml2.php</a><br> <br>
--<br>
Best Regards, Alexey Shildyakov.<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:59:47 +0200<br>
From: Albert Astals Cid <<a href="mailto:aacid@kde.org">aacid@kde.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Error in KDE site<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kde-edu@kde.org">kde-edu@kde.org</a>, Alexey Shildyakov <<a \
href="mailto:ashl1future@gmail.com">ashl1future@gmail.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:200905282359.50042.aacid@kde.org">200905282359.50042.aacid@kde.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15"<br>
<br>
A Dijous, 28 de maig de 2009, Alexey Shildyakov va escriure:<br>
> Broken links for KDE projects (Parley, KWordQuiz, Kanagram and KHangman) on<br>
> page: <a href="http://edu.kde.org/contrib/kvtml2/kvtml2.php" \
target="_blank">http://edu.kde.org/contrib/kvtml2/kvtml2.php</a><br> <br>
Fixed.<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
Albert<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:15:49 -0300<br>
From: Mauricio Piacentini <<a \
href="mailto:piacentini@kde.org">piacentini@kde.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kde-edu@kde.org">kde-edu@kde.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:90c3da860905281515l6d5bd813y5d4ee6db7ce13091@mail.gmail.com">90c3da860905281515l6d5bd813y5d4ee6db7ce13091@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
The idea of OO was discussed, but in the end I think we settled to<br>
implement initially the "talkto" approach. It is more linear and does<br>
not require any modification in concepts or in the other commands: it<br>
just makes one sprite the "active" one.<br>
I agree with Niels that we should probably stop at that point, instead<br>
of adding complexity. At least for the next step, then we can maybe<br>
verify how people are using it and then continue to build.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Mauricio Piacentini<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:16:17 -0300<br>
From: Mauricio Piacentini <<a \
href="mailto:piacentini@kde.org">piacentini@kde.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [kde-edu]: Custom Turtle / Re: Kturtle<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kde-edu@kde.org">kde-edu@kde.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:90c3da860905281516k7e4d6dcqb32a201a0ba53535@mail.gmail.com">90c3da860905281516k7e4d6dcqb32a201a0ba53535@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Oh, btw I think Niels is right about the theme versus sprite<br>
implementation. We could probably just allow people to load simple<br>
sprites at first.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Mauricio Piacentini<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
kde-edu mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kde-edu@mail.kde.org">kde-edu@mail.kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu</a><br> <br>
<br>
End of kde-edu Digest, Vol 74, Issue 20<br>
***************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br>
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