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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: [kde-community] Why were there no talks about Ubuntu Mobile at Akademy?
From: Laszlo Papp <lpapp () kde ! org>
Date: 2013-08-22 7:21:51
Message-ID: CAOMwXhP+Md6bjWNw++D3eD2e=TQsd76ACpmO1yWRHqu2+hFmiA () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Michael Zanetti <mzanetti@kde.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 August 2013 13:00:26 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > On Wednesday 21 August 2013 10:59:29 Mario Fux KDE ML wrote:
> > > Am Mittwoch 21 August 2013, 09.14:58 schrieb Michael Zanetti:
> > >
> > > Morning Michael
> > >
> > > Thanks for your and Albert's explanations.
> > >
> > > > On Tuesday 20 August 2013 22:11:04 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > > > On Friday 16 August 2013 10:49:26 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > > > > I think Aaron already made clear that he would be happy to work
> on
> > > > > > sharing as much as possible with the Plasma efforts he's
> involved in
> > > > > > and kick folk around him to do the same. I just make the wild bet
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > the Frameworks folk are perfectly open to the same - standards
> > > > > > benefit
> > > > > > us all, so does sharing libraries. They are turning KDE Libraries
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > components which are
> > > > > > separately useful, that sounds like a terribly useful think for
> > > > > > Ubuntu
> > > > > > Phone.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I get plenty of replies in no time all over that I'm wrong, but
> > > > > when
> > > > > I
> > > > > offer help and ask how we can actually do something constructive,
> > > > > there's
> > > > > only silence? If the Canonical folks on this list don't feel like
> this
> > > > > mail was directed at them - you're hereby corrected. If you don't
> feel
> > > > > like there is anything you can do, please say so, we can then
> discuss
> > > > > trying to talk to somebody at Canonical directly.
> > > >
> > > > I think for collaboration it takes more than just KDE and Canonical
> > > > having
> > > > some similar stuff to do:
> > > >
> > > > - Not all areas can be shared. I for one work on Unity8, which just
> > > > works
> > > > and looks so different in every way than plasma does. We don't need
> > > > Plasmoid containers, you don't need search scopes. Given that Ubuntu
> > > > Touch
> > > > is QML only, there's not much point in pulling the QWidget related
> stuff
> > > > from KF5 over to Ubuntu. Other things, like the Solid base for
> example
> > > > might indeed could be shared/reused.
> > > >
> > > > - Once there is something which might make sense to be shared, it
> > > > requires
> > > > the exact people working on it having interest in collaborating.
> Which
> > > > means, the responsive KDE person needs to accept that a certain API
> > > > needs
> > > > to change for requirements NOT needed by KDE and the responsive
> person
> > > > in
> > > > Canonical needs to have interest in pulling in something that most
> > > > likely
> > > > can do way more than Ubuntu needs at this stage, with the additional
> > > > efforts of maintaining more code and doing code reviews for stuff not
> > > > even
> > > > needed. It is not possible for me or Albert to go to some API guys
> and
> > > > tell them: You have to share code with KDE. This needs to happen from
> > > > inside the team. The person doing the work must drive it.
> > > >
> > > > Now, coming from the Gnome/Gtk area, Canonical's people mostly are
> aware
> > > > what code could be shared with Gnome, but not many of them have a
> clue
> > > > what KDE frameworks actually is. Same the other way round. I'm quite
> > > > sure
> > > > very few here know how the Ubuntu's architecture is built up.
> > >
> > > So here my two questions:
> > > - What could we do that this "Gnome/GTK Canonical people" would be
> better
> > > informed about KDE Frameworks?
>
>
> I think subscribing to the ubuntu-phone mailing list and just start
> following
> what people are doing. Seeing what people are working on, ideas where stuff
> could be shared should pop up on its own I guess.
>
> Starting to package up the libs that start to become usable might be a good
> thing too.
>
> But in the end, building showcases is always the best I'd say. How about
> porting some KDE apps to Ubuntu Touch? Doing a good job there would
> definitely draw attention to it. Especially at this point in time where
> every
> new app still gets like 5 blog posts dedicated to it.
>
> Doesn't even need to do some real thing. Already demos of how to use some K
> goodness would help I think.
>
One problem here is that we cannot try that on the real device until we
have one. In my experience the last few years in the (kde) mobile field,
people are not that interested in such things when they do not have
gadgets. That applies for me, too. I have tiny applications in
playground/mobile which I could port easily, but I do not have the
motivation without a real device.
-- Laszlo
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, \
Aug 22, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Michael Zanetti <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:mzanetti@kde.org" target="_blank">mzanetti@kde.org</a>></span> \
wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">On Wednesday 21 \
August 2013 13:00:26 Jos Poortvliet wrote:<br> > On Wednesday 21 August 2013 \
10:59:29 Mario Fux KDE ML wrote:<br> > > Am Mittwoch 21 August 2013, 09.14:58 \
schrieb Michael Zanetti:<br> > ><br>
> > Morning Michael<br>
> ><br>
> > Thanks for your and Albert's explanations.<br>
> ><br>
> > > On Tuesday 20 August 2013 22:11:04 Jos Poortvliet wrote:<br>
> > > > On Friday 16 August 2013 10:49:26 Jos Poortvliet wrote:<br>
> > > > > I think Aaron already made clear that he would be happy to \
work on<br> > > > > > sharing as much as possible with the Plasma \
efforts he's involved in<br> > > > > > and kick folk around him to \
do the same. I just make the wild bet<br> > > > > > that<br>
> > > > > the Frameworks folk are perfectly open to the same - \
standards<br> > > > > > benefit<br>
> > > > > us all, so does sharing libraries. They are turning KDE \
Libraries<br> > > > > > into<br>
> > > > > components which are<br>
> > > > > separately useful, that sounds like a terribly useful think \
for<br> > > > > > Ubuntu<br>
> > > > > Phone.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > So I get plenty of replies in no time all over that I'm \
wrong, but<br> > > > > when<br>
> > > > I<br>
> > > > offer help and ask how we can actually do something \
constructive,<br> > > > > there's<br>
> > > > only silence? If the Canonical folks on this list don't feel \
like this<br> > > > > mail was directed at them - you're hereby \
corrected. If you don't feel<br> > > > > like there is anything you \
can do, please say so, we can then discuss<br> > > > > trying to talk to \
somebody at Canonical directly.<br> > > ><br>
> > > I think for collaboration it takes more than just KDE and \
Canonical<br> > > > having<br>
> > > some similar stuff to do:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > - Not all areas can be shared. I for one work on Unity8, which \
just<br> > > > works<br>
> > > and looks so different in every way than plasma does. We don't \
need<br> > > > Plasmoid containers, you don't need search scopes. Given \
that Ubuntu<br> > > > Touch<br>
> > > is QML only, there's not much point in pulling the QWidget related \
stuff<br> > > > from KF5 over to Ubuntu. Other things, like the Solid base \
for example<br> > > > might indeed could be shared/reused.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > - Once there is something which might make sense to be shared, it<br>
> > > requires<br>
> > > the exact people working on it having interest in collaborating. \
Which<br> > > > means, the responsive KDE person needs to accept that a \
certain API<br> > > > needs<br>
> > > to change for requirements NOT needed by KDE and the responsive \
person<br> > > > in<br>
> > > Canonical needs to have interest in pulling in something that most<br>
> > > likely<br>
> > > can do way more than Ubuntu needs at this stage, with the \
additional<br> > > > efforts of maintaining more code and doing code reviews \
for stuff not<br> > > > even<br>
> > > needed. It is not possible for me or Albert to go to some API guys \
and<br> > > > tell them: You have to share code with KDE. This needs to \
happen from<br> > > > inside the team. The person doing the work must drive \
it.<br> > > ><br>
> > > Now, coming from the Gnome/Gtk area, Canonical's people mostly are \
aware<br> > > > what code could be shared with Gnome, but not many of them \
have a clue<br> > > > what KDE frameworks actually is. Same the other way \
round. I'm quite<br> > > > sure<br>
> > > very few here know how the Ubuntu's architecture is built up.<br>
> ><br>
> > So here my two questions:<br>
> > - What could we do that this "Gnome/GTK Canonical people" would \
be better<br> > > informed about KDE Frameworks?<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>I think subscribing to the ubuntu-phone mailing list and just start \
following<br> what people are doing. Seeing what people are working on, ideas where \
stuff<br> could be shared should pop up on its own I guess.<br>
<br>
Starting to package up the libs that start to become usable might be a good<br>
thing too.<br>
<br>
But in the end, building showcases is always the best I'd say. How about<br>
porting some KDE apps to Ubuntu Touch? Doing a good job there would<br>
definitely draw attention to it. Especially at this point in time where every<br>
new app still gets like 5 blog posts dedicated to it.<br>
<br>
Doesn't even need to do some real thing. Already demos of how to use some K<br>
goodness would help I think.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>One problem here is \
that we cannot try that on the real device until we have one. In my experience the \
last few years in the (kde) mobile field, people are not that interested in such \
things when they do not have gadgets. That applies for me, too. I have tiny \
applications in playground/mobile which I could port easily, but I do not have the \
motivation without a real device.</div> <div><br></div><div>-- \
Laszlo</div></div></div></div>
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