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List:       kde-bugs-dist
Subject:    [Bug 143995] add tabs to dolphin
From:       Peter Penz <peter.penz () gmx ! at>
Date:       2008-04-11 23:03:04
Message-ID: 20080411230304.3736.qmail () ktown ! kde ! org
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http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=143995         




------- Additional Comments From peter.penz gmx at  2008-04-12 01:03 -------
 Jordan:
> Why shun people who ask for something because it doesn't fit your agenda. 

Do you imply with this that I just follow my "agenda" and don't care for users? \
Currently I've 4710 Dolphin related e-mails and I think Dolphin is like it is as I \
actually tried to listen to the target user base Dolphin has been made for \
(http://enzosworld.gmxhome.de/philosophy.html).

> Maybe if you had more than one reason for not doing it then people
> would give you more reasons for doing it.

This is a flawed kind of argumentation... If people want to have a feature, they just \
have to convince me that my point of view is not valid and that they have better \
arguments. And the best way of arguments in the tab case is giving real world use \
cases.

> Instead of saying "No, that's too complicated," for months, why couldn't
> you have said from the beginning, "yes, not now, but in a later release?"

Because I'm listening to users and am open for changing my opinion. There has been \
quite constructive feedback in this thread and I thought already a lot about how to \
implement tabs without adding 7 tab menu entries like Konqueror3 did...

The thing is: It requires constructive feedback from the users. The only reasons you \
gave for tabs was "people multitask" and that there are applications that offer tabs. \
If I'd argument the same way I could say "but the most used file browser in the world \
- Windows Explorer - does not have tabs, nor has Mac OS X' Finder or Gnome's \
Nautilus.". But this is a flawed argumentation... 

> I'm sorry that I've come off as angry here, but the tone
> of the developers has been pretty condescending so far.

This is because the tone of the community has changed during the last years (see also \
http://daniel.molkentin.de/blog/archives/108-Comments-Considered-Harmful-or-The-Halo-Effect.html) \
and you are a very good example why developers get condescending: If you use terms \
like "crippled" and "crap" don't expect that we stay polite.

Some years ago people from the community often asked whether they could help, in the \
meantime the majority only requests things and expects developers to implement "their \
feature".

> If the project is short on people, then it should have taken longer
> to do a release.

This thing has been discussed so often already and you're really wrong here... Open \
Source development requires frequent releases to get any feedback from users. If we \
would have released KDE 4.0 somewhere in 2010 (when it's "finished" (?)), then you \
would not have been noticed that Dolphin has no tabs. You only know that Dolphin has \
no tabs because we released KDE 4.0. So here we are: open for discussion, listening \
to users and maybe implementing this feature quite soon... ;-)

 w posche:
Thanks for the use case. Judging from the current use cases it seems that tabs are \
mainly used for navigation purposes (-> drag and drop between tabs seems to be used \
very rarely). I think I could come up with a useful tab interface without cluttering \
the menu with 7 items with this input.


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