[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: xml-dev
Subject: Fwd: [xml-dev] RE: Formatless files
From: Dimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev () gmail ! com>
Date: 2022-08-14 21:29:56
Message-ID: CAK4KnZfsD4o_bodzmkEWA-Ky9eyBeMVzb93t0waDaMXK_E=jLA () mail ! gmail ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [xml-dev] RE: Formatless files
To: Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org>
There are many cases when we don't want "any program" to read our file. And
by "read" I mean "understand / get / extract the useful information".
Consider a file that contains the hashes of (salted) network-ids and/or
passwords of the users in an organization, or a smaller subset of this
organization.
Thanks,
Dimitre
On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 2:01 PM Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote:
> "Files in the UNIX system are formatless. That means that they are simply
> a string of characters or bytes. Any format imposed on the data is done by
> the programmer rather than by the operating system. This makes programming
> very easy for programmers."
>
> "Let me contrast to other operating systems where at file creation time a
> programmer must specify what information will be in the file, how big the
> file will be, etc. Once that is done the programmer is locked into it.
> Having locked into that kind of file, then later it becomes impossible to
> put another kind of data in that file. The analogy is to try to put a
> legal-sized document into a letter-size file. It simply won't fit."
>
> [Roger: At file creation time an XML author must specify what the
> character encoding (charset) is. Once that is done the XML document is
> locked into that charset. Having locked into that kind of charset, then
> later it becomes impossible to put data with another kind of charset in
> that file. For example, if the file is created using the UTF-8 charset,
> then later you cannot insert data in the EBCDIC charset.]
>
> "In the UNIX system you don't have this problem because data in files is
> formatless and data can be easily moved back and forth between files."
>
> "Formatless files in which the data consists solely of a stream of bytes
> that is uninterpreted by the operating simplifies life because it means
> that any program can process any file. When you combine this with the
> concept of pipelining or stream processing, it makes UNIX an extremely
> powerful programming tool."
>
> Dennis Ritchie, Ken Thompson, Brian Kernighan, Catherine Ann Brooks
>
> https://youtu.be/XvDZLjaCJuw?t=707
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS
> to support XML implementation and development. To minimize
> spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting.
>
> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/
> Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org
> subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org
> List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php
>
>
--
Cheers,
Dimitre Novatchev
---------------------------------------
Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence.
---------------------------------------
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk
-------------------------------------
Never fight an inanimate object
-------------------------------------
To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the
biggest mistake of all
------------------------------------
Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.
-------------------------------------
You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what
you're doing is work or play
-------------------------------------
To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep.
-------------------------------------
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
-------------------------------------
Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write
all patents, too? :)
-------------------------------------
Sanity is madness put to good use.
-------------------------------------
I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong \
class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Dimitre Novatchev</strong> <span \
dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:dnovatchev@gmail.com">dnovatchev@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: \
Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 2:29 PM<br>Subject: Re: [xml-dev] RE: Formatless files<br>To: \
Roger L Costello <<a \
href="mailto:costello@mitre.org">costello@mitre.org</a>><br></div><br><br><div \
dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">There are many cases when we don't want "any \
program" to read our file. And by "read" I mean "understand / get \
/ extract the useful information".<div><br></div><div>Consider a file that \
contains the hashes of (salted) network-ids and/or passwords of the users in an \
organization, or a smaller subset of this \
organization.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Dimitre</div></div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 2:01 PM \
Roger L Costello <<a href="mailto:costello@mitre.org" \
target="_blank">costello@mitre.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">"Files in the UNIX system are formatless. \
That means that they are simply a string of characters or bytes. Any format imposed \
on the data is done by the programmer rather than by the operating system. This makes \
programming very easy for programmers."<br> <br>
"Let me contrast to other operating systems where at file creation time a \
programmer must specify what information will be in the file, how big the file will \
be, etc. Once that is done the programmer is locked into it. Having locked into that \
kind of file, then later it becomes impossible to put another kind of data in that \
file. The analogy is to try to put a legal-sized document into a letter-size file. It \
simply won't fit." <br> <br>
[Roger: At file creation time an XML author must specify what the character encoding \
(charset) is. Once that is done the XML document is locked into that charset. Having \
locked into that kind of charset, then later it becomes impossible to put data with \
another kind of charset in that file. For example, if the file is created using the \
UTF-8 charset, then later you cannot insert data in the EBCDIC charset.]<br> <br>
"In the UNIX system you don't have this problem because data in files is \
formatless and data can be easily moved back and forth between files." <br> <br>
"Formatless files in which the data consists solely of a stream of bytes that is \
uninterpreted by the operating simplifies life because it means that any program can \
process any file. When you combine this with the concept of pipelining or stream \
processing, it makes UNIX an extremely powerful programming tool."<br> <br>
Dennis Ritchie, Ken Thompson, Brian Kernighan, Catherine Ann Brooks<br>
<br>
<a href="https://youtu.be/XvDZLjaCJuw?t=707" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://youtu.be/XvDZLjaCJuw?t=707</a> <br> <br>
_______________________________________________________________________<br>
<br>
XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS<br>
to support XML implementation and development. To minimize<br>
spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting.<br>
<br>
[Un]Subscribe/change address: <a href="http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/</a><br> Or \
unsubscribe: <a href="mailto:xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org" \
target="_blank">xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org</a><br>
subscribe: <a href="mailto:xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org" \
target="_blank">xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org</a><br> List archive: <a \
href="http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/</a><br> List Guidelines: <a \
href="http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php</a><br> <br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div>
</div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" \
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div>Cheers,</div><div>Dimitre \
Novatchev</div><div>---------------------------------------</div><div>Truly great \
madness cannot be achieved without significant \
intelligence.</div><div>---------------------------------------</div><div>To invent, \
you need a good imagination and a pile of \
junk</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>Never fight an \
inanimate object</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>To avoid \
situations in which you might make mistakes may be the</div><div>biggest mistake of \
all</div><div>------------------------------------</div><div>Quality means doing it \
right when no one is \
looking.</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>You've \
achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what you're doing \
is work or play</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>To achieve \
the impossible dream, try going to \
sleep.</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>Facts do not cease \
to exist because they are \
ignored.</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>Typing monkeys \
will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write all patents, too? \
:)</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>Sanity is madness put to \
good use.</div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div>I finally figured \
out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.</div><div> </div></div></div>
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic