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List:       xml-cocoon-dev
Subject:    Re: My API is better than yours
From:       Brett McLaughlin <new.instance () gte ! net>
Date:       2000-04-28 21:57:24
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Keith Visco wrote:
> 
> I agree with Mike, 100%!

Then you haven't been by jdom.org ;-)  We are working on all the issues
that he has raised, and addressing them all... I hope you (and Mike)
will come check it out before assuming too much - we all know how fast
open-source changes, and how easy it is to make incorrect statements
because two days ago things were totally different than they are today. 
I still stand by my statements, so that's OK ;-)

> 
> Also, if they didn't want discussion on the topic, perhaps it shouldn't
> have been brought up in the first place.

Exactly.  And we spurred lots of discussion, which is what we want. 
Which is why we have jumped from about 80% compliance to well over 90%
in less than a day, and have people working towards 100% over the
weekend.  No skin off my back - I am just glad people (including me)
took it off the 8 zillion lists...

> 
> And Stefano, the only people I saw saying, "My API is better than
> yours", was the JDOM people. I was merely trying to understand what the
> benefits of JDOM were and why they think their API is so much better.
> And I didn't read any "kindergarten" like comments.

Keith - I know that mine and jason's comments were /not/ directed at
you.  The conversation we had and will continue to have was totally
productive.  I think the "stop the chatter" was at the continual posting
to so many general* lists (jakarta, xml, etc).  Please don't take
offense, at least not from me ;-)

> 
> Do you think constructive criticism is a bad thing? Personally I think
> it helps...both positive and negative comments are usually beneficial.
> 

Absolutely.  Lots of folks from XML-dev started out with criticism, and
are now actively working with us on JDOM to bring it to full compliance
with XML 1.0, namespaces, etc.  Our initial intent was to make people
realize that there /were/ alternatives, which there are.  Now we're
making it one that you can't pass up ;-)

-Brett

> --Keith
> 
> Mike Pogue wrote:
> >
> > The reason why the discussion has gone on this long, is that
> > multiple Apache lists were posted to, with strong words like this:
> >
> > "It's a replacement for the ridiculously complex DOM and SAX APIs."
> >
> > and
> >
> > "Not only do we offer a /very/ attractive alternative to SAX and DOM,
> > we are still 100% interoperable with SAX and DOM"
> >
> > when, in fact, it does not even implement the XML spec
> > (e.g. namespaces, order preservation, etc.).
> >
> > To use an analogy, I think we'd be having a similar lengthy discussion,
> > if somebody had posted something like this to several Apache mailing lists:
> >
> > "Stylebook offers a /very/ attractive alternative to the ridiculously
> > complex Cocoon 2.0 project, and we are still 100% interoperable with
> > Cocoon 2.0. So, come join our new Open Source project at stylebook.org".
> >
> > Do they have kindergarten in Italy?  :-) :-)
> > Mike
> >
> > Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok people,
> > >
> > > can we turn off this "kindergarden-mode" and go back to serious
> > > discussions?
> > >
> > > Brett and Jason didn't like DOM thus wrote another API to wrap it.
> > >
> > > So what? what's the big deal?
> > >
> > > You like it? good, use it. You don't? great, ignore it.
> > >
> > > Period.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
> > >                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> > > <stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >  Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
> > > ------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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