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List: wikitech-l
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Comments like Google Docs
From: Samuel Klein <meta.sj () gmail ! com>
Date: 2023-12-13 16:56:40
Message-ID: CAAtU9WLXC-O08+NxJveVnq+Wavbapx7ccJc_TMFOZJhrb7cS0w () mail ! gmail ! com
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This is *such* a good idea. Very much the way "Talk" should be implemented
by default, and would be transformative for the sorts of edtind and collab
I do on live as well as draft articles.
Most readers dont know Talk exists; most logged in readers dont take time
to check talk when browsing, new updates to talk make no impact on the page
if you don't look, most talk sections relate.to specific paragraphs and
words, &c :)
===
To some of the concerns:
Comments should be editable / revertable by others, just as Talk is now.
Any edits are a vector for potential spam and misinfo. These would be
edits. Not a new problem, but this should check page protection before
making the hook that's visible to all gadget users. (Maybe if protection
blocked it can still generate the talk of section, with the same templates
link from the talk page to the appropriate article section/snippet, but not
show up on the article view?)
Hypothesis is still pretty all or nothing, can't do the above or sync w
Talk pg.
🌍🌏🌎🌑
On Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 5:12 AM Felipe Schenone <schenonef@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for all the info, pointers and comments!
> @Subbu: Indeed that was the one I read about, thanks!
> @Thiemo: What I'm thinking of is a *gadget*, so it would be available on
> Wikimedia wikis (and any other) but only for users that choose to enable it
> (similar to my gadget MiniEdit <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MiniEdit>).
>
> The gadget would allow its users to highlight some text and publish a
> comment to the talk page along with the highlighted text and parent
> paragraph (for context). Like so:
>
> In ancient times, the use of solar energy was believed to have existed in
> > civilizations amidst the Greeks
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece>, Romans
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome> and the Chinese
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_China>, though not for cooking.[3]
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cooker#cite_note-3>
>
> Did it exist or not? The source says it did, so if no objections are
> raised, I'll remove this.
>
>
> Only users with the gadget enabled would be able to see the highlighted
> text and comment in the article itself. The rest would only see it in the
> talk page.
>
> Because of the way I'm thinking the gadget would work, if the
> wikitext/HTML of the parent paragraph changes (for example because the
> issue got fixed), then the comment would stop showing in the article to
> users with the gadget enabled. This is because the wikitext/HTML of the
> paragraph itself would act as the anchor or identifier that would allow the
> gadget to know where to insert the comment. This may be sub-optimal in some
> cases, but it's the only way I can think of doing it without having the
> gadget insert things into the wikitext of the article (which would be a
> definitive no-no). In any case, the comments would always be available in
> the talk page.
>
> To be honest though, some of your comments have made me question if this
> could be useful, but I think given the way it would work, and considering
> it would be an optional gadget that won't be available to random visitors,
> it should be harmless, and time will tell if it ever becomes popular. I'm
> working on a crude prototype and will share it shortly. Any insights, ideas
> or comments are welcome!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 11:28 PM Subramanya Sastry <ssastry@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On 12/8/23 03:12, Felipe Schenone wrote:
> >
> > > Hi! I'm thinking on writing a gadget to add inline comments to
> > > articles, similar to how Google Docs comments work.
> > >
> > > However, I'm sure I recently read somewhere about someone developing
> > > an extension or something with the same goal, but now I can't find it
> > > anywhere. Anyone knows?
> >
> >
> > https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2023/Extension_for_creating_and_managing_inline_comments
> > may be what you heard about?
> >
> > Subbu.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
> >
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
> >
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[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="auto"><div>This is <i>such</i> a good idea. Very much the way \
"Talk" should be implemented by default, and would be transformative for \
the sorts of edtind and collab I do on live as well as draft articles.<div \
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Most readers dont know Talk exists; most logged \
in readers dont take time to check talk when browsing, new updates to talk make no \
impact on the page if you don't look, most talk sections <a \
href="http://relate.to" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">relate.to</a> specific \
paragraphs and words, &c :)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div \
dir="auto">===</div><div dir="auto">To some of the concerns:</div><div \
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Comments should be editable / revertable by \
others, just as Talk is now.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Any edits \
are a vector for potential spam and misinfo. These would be edits. Not a new problem, \
but this should check page protection before making the hook that's visible to \
all gadget users. (Maybe if protection blocked it can still generate the talk of \
section, with the same templates link from the talk page to the appropriate article \
section/snippet, but not show up on the article view?)</div><div \
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hypothesis is still pretty all or nothing, \
can't do the above or sync w Talk pg.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div \
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br><div \
data-smartmail="gmail_signature" \
dir="auto">🌍🌏🌎🌑</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div \
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 5:12 AM Felipe Schenone <<a \
href="mailto:schenonef@gmail.com" target="_blank" \
rel="noreferrer">schenonef@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks everyone for all the info, \
pointers and comments!</div><div>@Subbu: Indeed that was the one I read about, \
thanks!</div><div>@Thiemo: What I'm thinking of is a <b>gadget</b>, so it would \
be available on Wikimedia wikis (and any other) but only for users that choose to \
enable it (similar to my gadget <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MiniEdit" \
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" \
target="_blank">MiniEdit</a>).</div><div><br></div><div>The gadget would allow its \
users to highlight some text and publish a comment to the talk page along with the \
highlighted text and parent paragraph (for context). Like \
so:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 \
40px;border:none;padding:0px"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px \
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span \
style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">In ancient times, \
the use of solar energy <span style="background-color:rgb(255,229,153)">was believed \
to have</span> existed in civilizations </span>amidst<span \
style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> the </span><a \
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece" title="Ancient Greece" \
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(51,102,204);background-image:none;backgroun \
d-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" \
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Greeks</a><span \
style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">, </span><a \
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome" title="Ancient Rome" \
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(51,102,204);background-image:none;backgroun \
d-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" \
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Romans</a><span \
style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> and the \
</span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_China" title="Ancient China" \
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(51,102,204);background-image:none;backgroun \
d-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" \
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Chinese</a><span \
style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">, though not for \
cooking.</span><sup id="m_5006386853543124074m_2129244621256436524gmail-cite_ref-3" \
style="line-height:1;unicode-bidi:isolate;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif"><a \
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cooker#cite_note-3" \
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(51,102,204);background:none" \
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" \
target="_blank">[3]</a></sup></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:0 0 \
0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>Did it exist or not? The source says it did, so \
if no objections are raised, I'll remove this.</div></blockquote><br><div>Only \
users with the gadget enabled would be able to see the highlighted text and comment \
in the article itself. The rest would only see it in the talk \
page.</div><div><br></div><div>Because of the way I'm thinking the gadget would \
work, if the wikitext/HTML of the parent paragraph changes (for example because the \
issue got fixed), then the comment would stop showing in the article to users with \
the gadget enabled. This is because the wikitext/HTML of the paragraph itself would \
act as the anchor or identifier that would allow the gadget to know where to insert \
the comment. This may be sub-optimal in some cases, but it's the only way I can \
think of doing it without having the gadget insert things into the wikitext of the \
article (which would be a definitive no-no). In any case, the comments would always \
be available in the talk page.</div><div><br></div><div>To be honest though, some of \
your comments have made me question if this could be useful, but I think given the \
way it would work, and considering it would be an optional gadget that won't be \
available to random visitors, it should be harmless, and time will tell if it ever \
becomes popular. I'm working on a crude prototype and will share it shortly. Any \
insights, ideas or comments are welcome!<br><br>Kind regards,</div></div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at \
11:28 PM Subramanya Sastry <<a href="mailto:ssastry@wikimedia.org" \
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ssastry@wikimedia.org</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 12/8/23 03:12, \
Felipe Schenone wrote:<br> <br>
> Hi! I'm thinking on writing a gadget to add inline comments to <br>
> articles, similar to how Google Docs comments work.<br>
><br>
> However, I'm sure I recently read somewhere about someone developing <br>
> an extension or something with the same goal, but now I can't find it <br>
> anywhere. Anyone knows?<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2023/Extension_for_creating_and_managing_inline_comments" \
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2023/Extension_for_creating_and_managing_inline_comments</a> \
<br> may be what you heard about?<br>
<br>
Subbu.<br>
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</blockquote></div>
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