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List:       wikipedia-l
Subject:    Re: [Wikipedia-l] moderation of mark williamson
From:       Mark Williamson <node.ue () gmail ! com>
Date:       2005-11-30 15:06:20
Message-ID: 849f98ed0511300706n47aa5637p () mail ! gmail ! com
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> > First of all, there are quite a few other users who support the
> > existance of that Wikipedia, most nostably Gabix, Russ, Vertaler,
> > Ronline, and I believe Iulian U.
> Not denying the support for this Wikipedia from others, still you were
> the only one that supported it with great fervor. I also have the
> impression that the supporters of Moldovan Wikipedia are somewhat in
> minority compared to those desiring that it don't exist.

Landroni, some time ago there was a vote on the existence of that WP,
and those supporting its existence were in the majority there.

And the reason I was the only one who supported it with great fervor
is that I had put a great deal of work into it, and there you and your
cronies were saying "Who cares about the work you've done, we're not
happy about this WP, so we want it deleted".

What about "live and let live"? How does the existence of that WP *hurt* you?

> > Despite the fact that until recently, 99% of the articles on that
> > Wikipedia were entirely due to my effort? (more recently, other users,
> > especially Russ, have stepped up the effort).
> Mark, the fact that you are the only actual contributor (till lately)
> to Moldovan Wikipedia is undenyable. Still, you are not nor Moldovan,
> nor Romanian. You have not lived there, you have never spoken Romanian
> or "Moldovan". I admire your efforts to write articles in a very

And you know this how? I have made a number of statements to the
contrary and I think that by now I have proved to a satisfactory
degree taht you are wrong.

You are the one who thought I was russian, and wrote to me in Russian,
and then got all confused when I couldn't understand. So don't go
around telling me which languages I can and cannot speak.

> foreign language, but I regard these as somehow being in vain. Apart
> from some passionate contributors and supporters, no one will ever
> find use for Moldovan Wikipedia other than to make (to himself or to
> others) a false idea about Moldova, the language spoken there and its

What about those people who prefer Cyrillic? You have belittled them,
but you did not deny they exist. They are people too. And you seem to
have a very polarised view of the situation in Transnistria.

> links to Russia(n). And I reiterate that you are not in knowledge of
> the cause (I hope this is the correct English expression). I come from
> Moldova, I lived there all my life apart from the previous year. No
> one, but no one uses Cyrillic alphabet for Romanian language. In the

no one, except for...

> villages, yes, maybe, but only by the retired and the almost
> illiterate. Otherwise villages are empty - everyone works either in

So some people do use it? Is it then your assertion that these people
don't matter, or that they should be ignored?

Wikimedia is a not-for-profit organisation. There is no concept of
"marketability" involved. A Wikipedia was recently created for the
Pitkern/Norfuk language, which has only a couple of thousand speakers
at maximum perhaps. Moldovan in Cyrillic has wider currency than that.

So, as long as _some_ people use it, you'll need better reasons than
the ones you've given so far to suppress it.

Some people have mentioned having conversion on ro.wiki between Latin
and Cyrillic, but as Ronline said, that is almost definitely never
going to happen for reasons of collective Romanian nationalist
sentiment -- think of all the angry vandalism that would happen by
people upset that somebody was writing their "glorious beautiful
language" in the "ugly russian alphabet" (somebody actually used
phrases like this on the Moldovan WP).

If you have any better ideas to accomodate these people, other than
_ignoring them_, I'll be happy to consider them. But to say that we
should ignore them because you don't like Cyrillic Moldovan is a bit
selfish.

> the capital, either at black in Europe or Russia. Transnistria - they
> keep Moldovan language in Cyrillic only from political reasons.
> Otherwise, only Russian is used there. Go to the Police and speak in
> Romanian (Moldovan, if you prefer) they will not understand one word.
> You'll have to switch to Russian.

Not sure that's got anything to do with anything. The undeniable fact
is that at this very moment, thousands of children in Transnistria are
getting an education in Moldovan Cyrillic using Soviet textbooks with
poor information. The only hope is that in the future, these kids can
read Wikipedia, and get the truth.

> > No, not really. Perhaps you perceived it that way -- yes, for a while,
> > there were arguments going on. But they were isolated points in the
> > history of mo.wiki -- for the last couple of months, there hasn't been
> > any real argument, and it's just been slow growth.
> Agreed with this. But at that time it was endless.

"Endless" means it doesn't have an end, but it's ended, so it isn't
endless and it never was.

> Regarding Bonaparte, I have already understood my mistake. The next
> time I will inform myself more. Mark, and regarding this reaction it
> was probably exagerated, but I was still driven by sentiments from
> previous debates on mo.wiki.

If I recall correctly, you participated in a very minimal capacity in
debates at mo.wiki. You voted for some things, posted a couple of
paragraphs, but other than that never said anything. That pales in
comparison to Duca, Goie, and Mihaita, all of whom are Romanians...

Mark

--
"Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
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