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List:       wikipedia-l
Subject:    Re: [Wikipedia-l] Policy clarification: separate Wikipedias for
From:       Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann () gmx ! de>
Date:       2005-07-11 20:30:14
Message-ID: 200507112230.14509.heiko.evermann () gmx ! de
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Hi everyone, hi Mark,

On Monday, 11. July 2005 11:06, Mark Williamson wrote:
> I have now been blocked by Robin Patterson for removing
> English-language content.
Now this is interesting. A few days ago mi.wikipedia.org and nds.wikipedia.org 
were going on fine. Now Mark comes along, doing as he pleases, not caring 
about existing communities and their rules, changing things the way he thinks 
best, in the case of Maori without even knowing the language. His changes get 
reverted. He does not care, his changes get revertet again, he does the same 
thing again and gets a one-week ban in mi, and he is close to getting one in 
nds, too.

If such things happen in two unrelated wikipedias, whose fault might this be? 
Marks or mi/nds's?
>
> I had left him a message a few days ago, and he never answered it.
>
> One of the diffs where he added back English-language content:
> http://mi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hau_K%C4%81inga&diff=7198&oldid=7
>192
This is not correct. It is an explanation in English to point users who know 
English better than Maori (which is a basic problem for Maori people!) to a 
good place to start.
>
> I do not think that somebody like this should be trusted with admin
> privelages, especially since according to him his fluency level is
> only mi-1.
I have had a look at Robin's edits. I think that he is doing a great job. I 
see that he is careful which sentences he translate (when he is confident 
about his language skills) and which he so far does not (because at the 
moment it is beyond his language skills). I like that. It is not up to you, 
Mark (you are not a Maori speaker) to decide that. If other people from 
within the Maori community come and elect other Admins, it is fine, but it is 
none of your business. Within 24 hours you have demanded the removal of two 
admins (Robin in mi and me in nds). That, I find, is highly unusual and tells 
a lot more about you than about us.

> I request immediate unbanning of myself, and immediate removal of his
> sysop privelages due to abuse (present and past).
You got banned in mi, because you just went on with your changes, even though 
you were explicitly asked not to do that. You just came out of nowhere, 
decided that you had a licence to kill all English content in [:mi] and went 
on. The main point about this is that you did not check this with the mi 
community. I think that some of these English passages were there on purpose 
as a preparation to be translated into English later. The mi wikipedia 
explicitly states on http://mi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_Portal 
"This is intended to be an encyclopedia (mātāpunenga) in which every article 
is written entirely in the Māori language", so you should not worry, over 
time those English passages will be translated, and it is *none of your 
business* to interfere with a community that does not want your "help".

Again, as you seem to be slow to understand:
> > > Robin Patterson has asserted on mi: that rather than a Wikipedia in
> >
> > the Maori language, it's intended as a Wikipedia for the Maori people,
> > and thus extensive usage of the English language is OK or even good,
> > since only 5% of Maori people are fluent in Maori.
> >
> > Wrong. Maori means Maori language, not Maori people. "English Wikipedia"
> > doesn't mean "Wikipedia for people living in England" but rather
> > "Wikipedia written in English language".
Most of the Maori people are fluent in English, but only some of them are 
fluent in Maori. For a certain time English aids in this wikipedia might be 
important as stepping stones towards an all-Maori encyclopedia, and it is up 
to the community to decide when to do that, and not yours.

Mark, please have a closer look at one of your edits:
http://mi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hau_K%C4%81inga&diff=prev&oldid=7192

1) you deleted an explanation for English-language users, where to go within 
this wikipedia in order to participate
2) you deleted content in Maori. 
You did that three times. And the irony is that you got your blocking for 
removal of this *Maori*content.

I think, Mark, that it might be a good idea for you to mediate about your 
share of the blame and I think that a writing ban in mi might provide you 
with some time that you should use for this meditation.

In summary: I fully support Robin's decision.

Kind regards,

Heiko Evermann
(Admin in nds.wikipedia.org)
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