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List:       wikien-l
Subject:    Re: [WikiEN-l] Anet Dartmouth, Again
From:       Christiaan Briggs <christiaan () yurkycross ! co ! uk>
Date:       2004-08-31 13:00:35
Message-ID: BF8D3C9F-FB4D-11D8-9DCC-000A95AABE90 () yurkycross ! co ! uk
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On 28 Aug 2004, at 1:20 am, Ray Saintonge wrote:

> Christiaan Briggs wrote:
>
>> On 27 Aug 2004, at 10:40 pm, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>>
>>> Western Civilization to me really relates to Western Europe plus key 
>>> members of its former colonial empires.  It does promote certain 
>>> ideals, but that does not mean that it has been uniformly successful 
>>> in implementing those ideals.  This distinction is difficult for the 
>>> person who has not yet grasped the concept of irony.
>>
>> Actually this distinction was part of my argument. You seem to miss 
>> the point that the evidence (the millions who have died and suffered) 
>> suggests these ideals to be not much more than propaganda in a system 
>> that has historically implemented the opposite of such ideals.
>
> This argument is based on a distorted time scale.  I would give those 
> who developed the ideals the benefit of the doubt.  You are committing 
> the logical fallacy of "post hoc ergo propter hoc".  Those millions 
> did not die and suffer because of the ideals, but because of the 
> actions of people who purported to support them.  Engaging in a 
> propaganda campaign that claims to be founded on those ideals does not 
> imply that our propagandists believe and practise them.

Just to clarify, I never argued that these people died and suffered 
_because_ of these ideals. My argument is that our culture has 
extensively used and abused such ideals simply to make its membership 
feel good about itself when collectively implementing the opposite 
(imperialism, intolerance of other economic models, war, etc.). 
Cognitive dissonance often being the outcome when actuality comes to 
light.

Christiaan

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