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List: whonix-devel
Subject: [Whonix-devel] Fwd: [tor-talk] v3 Onion Services that host Mixmaster SMTP Nodes
From: procmem <procmem () riseup ! net>
Date: 2019-02-05 10:56:00
Message-ID: e600b28a-e410-7639-72f4-38235c150324 () riseup ! net
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Subject: [tor-talk] v3 Onion Services that host Mixmaster SMTP Nodes
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 10:54:51 +0000
From: procmem <procmem@riseup.net>
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
On 2/5/2019, grarpamp wrote:
> On 2/3/19, procmem wrote:
> >/Does anyone know of Mixmaster remailers that are hosted on v3 onions? /
> Search for and survey known remailers.
> Maybe some will offer it as result.
>
> >/The ones we currently have listed in Whonix are: /
> >/k54ids7luh523dbi.onion /
> down
Interesting, How could you tell?
> >/gbhpq7eihle4btsn.onion /
> up, and exists on clearnet
What node is this?
> >/v2 will be EOL at some point soon. /
> The mixmaster nodes that multihome with clearnet all
> exist publicly, thus they have no explicit need for v3
> anti hsdir trolling feature, or much else of v3, especially
> since you're supposd to PGP and crypto over any
> clearnet native protocols, such as email, anyways.
>
> Onion for mixmaster, regardless of v2 or v3, is useful
> simply for... the direct tor tunnel to server, and since many
> exits do not support email ports, and or the clearnet path
> is subject to smtp censorship.
This is precisely why we need them because direct clearnet access in
Whonix is not an option.
> There are *many* p2p v2 and v3 onion mail systems.
I'm not interested in webmail or s services where you need to register
to use. They are also a single point of surveillance/failure.
> v2 onions will not be going away or EOL anytime soon.
> In part due to needed features and capabilities of v2
> not being present in v3 or vN (some of which have
> recently again been noted on this list), and other tradeoffs
> acceptable to the knowledgeable user, including unwieldy
> string length of onion, etc. v3 is good and welcome
> improvement for those who need it. Yet it's really and properly
> ultimately up to the third party users and service operators as
> to which onion versions they elect to use, not Torproject Inc, et al.
>
> >/None of these have public pages that can inform users of upcoming />/changes or developments. /
> They don't have to. Unless you're a statist control freak
> who just has to know the human identity # behind every IP
> and service on the net.
That's not why I'm asking...
The point is, many of them have pinger stat pages and I was wondering if
there are some you know of that list an Onion as alternative access on
their project sites.
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Subject:
</th>
<td>[tor-talk] v3 Onion Services that host Mixmaster SMTP
Nodes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
<td>Tue, 5 Feb 2019 10:54:51 +0000</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">From: </th>
<td>procmem <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" \
href="mailto:procmem@riseup.net"><procmem@riseup.net></a></td> </tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" \
href="mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org">tor-talk@lists.torproject.org</a></td> \
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<p>On 2/5/2019, grarpamp wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">On 2/3/19, procmem wrote:
<pre>><i> Does anyone know of Mixmaster remailers that are hosted on v3 \
onions? </i>
Search for and survey known remailers.
Maybe some will offer it as result.
><i> The ones we currently have listed in Whonix are:
</i>
><i> k54ids7luh523dbi.onion
</i>
down
</pre>
</blockquote>
Interesting, How could you tell?<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>><i> gbhpq7eihle4btsn.onion
</i>
up, and exists on clearnet
</pre>
</blockquote>
What node is this?<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>><i> v2 will be EOL at some point soon.
</i>
The mixmaster nodes that multihome with clearnet all
exist publicly, thus they have no explicit need for v3
anti hsdir trolling feature, or much else of v3, especially
since you're supposd to PGP and crypto over any
clearnet native protocols, such as email, anyways.
Onion for mixmaster, regardless of v2 or v3, is useful
simply for... the direct tor tunnel to server, and since many
exits do not support email ports, and or the clearnet path
is subject to smtp censorship.
</pre>
</blockquote>
This is precisely why we need them because direct clearnet
access in Whonix is not an option.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>There are *many* p2p v2 and v3 onion mail systems.
</pre>
</blockquote>
I'm not interested in webmail or s services where you need to
register to use. They are also a single point of
surveillance/failure.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>v2 onions will not be going away or EOL anytime soon.
In part due to needed features and capabilities of v2
not being present in v3 or vN (some of which have
recently again been noted on this list), and other tradeoffs
acceptable to the knowledgeable user, including unwieldy
string length of onion, etc. v3 is good and welcome
improvement for those who need it. Yet it's really and properly
ultimately up to the third party users and service operators as
to which onion versions they elect to use, not Torproject Inc, et al.
><i> None of these have public pages that can inform users of upcoming
</i>><i> changes or developments.
</i>
They don't have to. Unless you're a statist control freak
who just has to know the human identity # behind every IP
and service on the net.</pre>
</blockquote>
That's not why I'm asking...
<p>The point is, many of them have pinger stat pages and I was
wondering if there are some you know of that list an Onion as
alternative access on their project sites.<br>
</p>
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