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List: webkit-dev
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] User Agent Client Hints
From: Yoav Weiss <yoav () yoav ! ws>
Date: 2020-11-02 16:56:51
Message-ID: CACj=BEiUTeQ0vFNmgtno4GmzGyWfYxuc_L4p5+EBdRnQHFob9g () mail ! gmail ! com
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Thanks for re-reviewing, Maciej!
Adding Mike Taylor, who's likely to take a closer look at this.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 2:17 AM Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> wrote:
>
> I just did a fresh review of that spec and explainer. Thanks for
> addressing many of the previous issues. This addresses many of the
> potential objections.
>
> Here's the new issues I filed:
>
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/141
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/142
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/143
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/144
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/145
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/146
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/147
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/148
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/149
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/150
> https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/151
>
>
Thanks for filing those! We'll take a look and respond shortly.
> Most of these are minor/editorial, but I think 151 is potentially a
> deal-breaker. I may be misreading the spec, but as written
> getHighEntropyValues seems to give access to all of the high entropy client
> hints to third-party scripts in the first party context, and scripts
> running in third-party iframes, regardless of which ones the site has opted
> into via the relevant HTTP header.
>
That's indeed the case, as we didn't consider the Client Hints opt-in to be
something that impacts the availability of the JS API. (as it doesn't do
that for other hints)
That would be a huge problem, as it would grant a lot of active
> fingerprinting surface unnecessarily
>
We did discuss
<https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/37#issuecomment-576730548>
adding
a Feature Policy (now Permission Policy) to that effect. Would that help
with your concerns?
> (perhaps even expanding beyond what is currently possible with the UA
> string).
>
Can you expand on that last point?
>
> Regards,
> Maciej
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> wrote:
>
> Yet-another ping! :)
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:23 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> wrote:
>
>> Friendly ping! :)
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:29 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi WebKit folks,
>>>
>>> Circling back on the previous discussion
>>> <https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2020-May/031195.html>
>>> about User-Agent ClientHint. The feature was implemented in Chromium and is
>>> being rolled out in Chrome.
>>>
>>> There were some concerns mentioned in the previous thread, that we
>>> believe were since addressed. Would the feature be something that WebKit
>>> would consider shipping?
>>>
>>> Cheers :)
>>> Yoav
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
>
>
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<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks for re-reviewing, \
Maciej!<br></div><div><br></div><div>Adding Mike Taylor, who's likely to take a \
closer look at this.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 2:17 AM Maciej Stachowiak <<a \
href="mailto:mjs@apple.com">mjs@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: \
break-word;"><div><br></div>I just did a fresh review of that spec and explainer. \
Thanks for addressing many of the previous issues. This addresses many of the \
potential objections.<div><br></div><div>Here's the new issues I \
filed:<br><div><br></div><div><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/141" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/141</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/142" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/142</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/143" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/143</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/144" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/144</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/145" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/145</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/146" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/146</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/147" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/147</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/148" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/148</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/149" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/149</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/150" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/150</a><br \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/151" \
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe \
UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI \
Emoji";font-size:14px" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/151</a><br><div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks \
for filing those! We'll take a look and respond shortly.</div><div> \
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px \
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: \
break-word;"><div><div><div><div>Most of these are minor/editorial, but I think 151 \
is potentially a deal-breaker. I may be misreading the spec, but as written \
getHighEntropyValues seems to give access to all of the high entropy client hints to \
third-party scripts in the first party context, and scripts running in third-party \
iframes, regardless of which ones the site has opted into via the relevant HTTP \
header. </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's \
indeed the case, as we didn't consider the Client Hints opt-in to be something \
that impacts the availability of the JS API. (as it doesn't do that for other \
hints)</div><div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: \
break-word;"><div><div><div><div>That would be a huge problem, as it would grant a \
lot of active fingerprinting surface unnecessarily \
</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We did <a \
href="https://github.com/WICG/ua-client-hints/issues/37#issuecomment-576730548">discuss</a> \
adding a Feature Policy (now Permission Policy) to that effect. Would that help with \
your concerns?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px \
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div \
style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><div>(perhaps even expanding beyond \
what is currently possible with the UA \
string).</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Can you expand \
on that last point?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: \
break-word;"><div><div><div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Maciej</div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote \
type="cite"><div>On Oct 27, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Yoav Weiss <<a \
href="mailto:yoav@yoav.ws" target="_blank">yoav@yoav.ws</a>> \
wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">Yet-another ping! :)</div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:23 AM \
Yoav Weiss <<a href="mailto:yoav@yoav.ws" target="_blank">yoav@yoav.ws</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div \
dir="ltr">Friendly ping! :)</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:29 AM Yoav Weiss <<a \
href="mailto:yoav@yoav.ws" target="_blank">yoav@yoav.ws</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi \
WebKit folks,<br><br>Circling back on the <a \
href="https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2020-May/031195.html" \
target="_blank">previous discussion</a> about User-Agent ClientHint. The feature was \
implemented in Chromium and is being rolled out in Chrome.<div><br>There were some \
concerns mentioned in the previous thread, that we believe were since addressed. \
Would the feature be something that WebKit would consider shipping? <br><br>Cheers \
:)<br></div><div>Yoav</div></div> </blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
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href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" \
target="_blank">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a><br><a \
href="https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev" \
target="_blank">https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
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