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List: webkit-dev
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Formatting style for inline comments in Python code
From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs () apple ! com>
Date: 2017-11-03 16:20:48
Message-ID: FF5B4198-AE3A-4BD1-AACB-668C6E238FF8 () apple ! com
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> On Nov 3, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Aakash Jain <aakash_jain@apple.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 2, 2017, at 8:45 PM, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com \
> > <mailto:mjs@apple.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On Nov 2, 2017, at 5:41 PM, Aakash Jain <aakash_jain@apple.com \
> > > <mailto:aakash_jain@apple.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com \
> > > > <mailto:mjs@apple.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:20 AM, Eric Carlson <eric.carlson@apple.com \
> > > > > <mailto:eric.carlson@apple.com>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 26, 2017, at 9:50 AM, Brian Burg <bburg@apple.com \
> > > > > > <mailto:bburg@apple.com>> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2017/10/26 午前9:21、Alexey Proskuryakov <ap@webkit.org \
> > > > > > > <mailto:ap@webkit.org>>のメール:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 25 окт. 2017 г., в 18:21, Michael Catanzaro \
> > > > > > > > <mcatanzaro@igalia.com <mailto:mcatanzaro@igalia.com>> \
> > > > > > > > написал(а):
> > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Aakash Jain <aakash_jain@apple.com \
> > > > > > > > <mailto:aakash_jain@apple.com>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Does anyone else has any opinion/preference for this?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The number of spaces before a comment really does not matter, but my \
> > > > > > > > $0.02: PEP8 is an extremely common style for Python programs that all \
> > > > > > > > Python developers are familiar with. I would follow that, and forget \
> > > > > > > > about trying to adapt WebKit C++ style to an unrelated language. \
> > > > > > > > Trying to adapt the style checker to ignore particular PEP8 rules \
> > > > > > > > seems like wasted effort.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is definitely a number of PEP8 rules that we want to follow. But \
> > > > > > > I don't think that there is anything about the two space before comment \
> > > > > > > rule that makes it particularly fitting for Python.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is entirely subjective, so: why differ from the vast majority of all \
> > > > > > other Python code in existence, just to be different? What's the point? \
> > > > > > PEP8 adherence is nearly universal among projects on PyPi, at least among \
> > > > > > those that run style linters.
> > > > > > > I think that we should target WebKit developers with the coding style \
> > > > > > > as much as possible, not Python developers. As we all agree on the one \
> > > > > > > space rule elsewhere, why make a part of the code base uncomfortably \
> > > > > > > different for most WebKit developers?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't understand the distinction between WebKit developers and Python \
> > > > > > developers. Am I not a C++ developer and web developer as well?
> > > > > > If "WebKit developers" want to write Python code, perhaps they should \
> > > > > > learn the Pythonic idioms of the language, just as they would use idioms \
> > > > > > of Perl, JavaScript, and C++. For better or worse, PEP8 encodes many of \
> > > > > > these idioms.
> > > > > > If someone already knows Python, they will be tripped up by this \
> > > > > > divergence and waste some minutes trying to satisfy the style checker, or \
> > > > > > just ignore it. If they don't know Python well, then they are being \
> > > > > > conditioned to follow some variant that has no benefit and is different \
> > > > > > from what they would see in any other Python code.
> > > > > > I see no value in adding arbitrary barriers to new contributions in \
> > > > > > Python code. The code has enough problems as-is, we don't need to make up \
> > > > > > our own for some pretense of consistency. We import other Python projects \
> > > > > > into the tree, and they follow PEP8, so what was proposed is to make the \
> > > > > > Python code in the tree *less* internally consistent.
> > > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm very used to WebKit style for C++, and I agree that we should use PEP8 \
> > > > style for Python even where it differs from our C++ style.
> > >
> > > I personally prefer following PEP8 while writing python.
> > >
> > > Since people have opinions for both C++ style as well as PEP8 style (and \
> > > comment spacing is anyways a minor thing), I am going to go with Maciej and use \
> > > PEP8 style for Python (which is the style we have already been following in \
> > > webkitpy).
> >
> > I mean, I agree with this approach, but don't do it just because I said it. :-) \
> > These days, I code less C++ and less Python in WebKit than most people on this \
> > thread.
>
> I am not doing it only because you said this. I discussed it with Alexey yesterday, \
> and he was fine either way. I personally prefer PEP8. Brian Burg, Michael Catanzaro \
> and Eric Carlson also supported this. That makes most of us (who expressed their \
> opinion) favor this approach.
Sounds good. Do we need to update our style guidelines at all? Maybe just state \
somewhere that for Python our style is PEP8?
- Maciej
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
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charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote \
type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 3, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Aakash Jain <<a \
href="mailto:aakash_jain@apple.com" class="">aakash_jain@apple.com</a>> \
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
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type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: \
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orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; \
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="">On Nov 2, 2017, at 8:45 PM, Maciej \
Stachowiak <<a href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" class="">mjs@apple.com</a>> \
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" \
style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: \
after-white-space;"><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" \
class=""><div class="">On Nov 2, 2017, at 5:41 PM, Aakash Jain <<a \
href="mailto:aakash_jain@apple.com" class="">aakash_jain@apple.com</a>> \
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: \
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: \
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:21 AM, \
Maciej Stachowiak <<a href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" class="">mjs@apple.com</a>> \
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: \
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: \
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:20 AM, \
Eric Carlson <<a href="mailto:eric.carlson@apple.com" \
class="">eric.carlson@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: \
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; \
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 26, 2017, at 9:50 AM, \
Brian Burg <<a href="mailto:bburg@apple.com" class="">bburg@apple.com</a>> \
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: \
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: \
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">2017/10/26 \
午前9:21、Alexey Proskuryakov <<a href="mailto:ap@webkit.org" \
class="">ap@webkit.org</a>>のメール:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: \
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br \
class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">25 \
окт. 2017 г., в 18:21, Michael Catanzaro <<a \
href="mailto:mcatanzaro@igalia.com" class="">mcatanzaro@igalia.com</a>> \
написал(а):</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div \
class="">On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Aakash Jain <<a \
href="mailto:aakash_jain@apple.com" class="">aakash_jain@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Does anyone else has any opinion/preference \
for this?<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">The number of spaces before a comment \
really does not matter, but my $0.02: PEP8 is an extremely common style for Python \
programs that all Python developers are familiar with. I would follow that, and \
forget about trying to adapt WebKit C++ style to an unrelated language. Trying to \
adapt the style checker to ignore particular PEP8 rules seems like wasted effort.<br \
class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div \
class="">There is definitely a number of PEP8 rules that we want to follow. But I \
don't think that there is anything about the two space before comment rule that makes \
it particularly fitting for Python.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">This is entirely subjective, so: why \
differ from the vast majority of all other Python code in existence, just to be \
different? What's the point? PEP8 adherence is nearly universal among projects on \
PyPi, at least among those that run style linters.</div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" \
style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: \
after-white-space;"><div class="">I think that we should target WebKit developers \
with the coding style as much as possible, not Python developers. As we all agree on \
the one space rule elsewhere, why make a part of the code base uncomfortably \
different for most WebKit developers?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">I don't understand the distinction between WebKit \
developers and Python developers. Am I not a C++ developer and web developer as \
well?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If "WebKit developers" want \
to write Python code, perhaps they should learn the Pythonic idioms of the language, \
just as they would use idioms of Perl, JavaScript, and C++. For better or worse, PEP8 \
encodes many of these idioms.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If \
someone already knows Python, they will be tripped up by this divergence and waste \
some minutes trying to satisfy the style checker, or just ignore it. If they don't \
know Python well, then they are being conditioned to follow some variant that has no \
benefit and is different from what they would see in any other Python code.</div><div \
class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I see no value in adding arbitrary barriers \
to new contributions in Python code. The code has enough problems as-is, we don't \
need to make up our own for some pretense of consistency. We import other Python \
projects into the tree, and they follow PEP8, so what was proposed is to make the \
Python code in the tree *less* internally consistent.</div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div \
class="">+1</div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div \
class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div \
class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: \
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; \
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I'm very used to WebKit style for \
C++, and I agree that we should use PEP8 style for Python even where it differs from \
our C++ style.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div \
class="">I personally prefer following PEP8 while writing python.</div><div \
class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Since people have opinions for both C++ \
style as well as PEP8 style (and comment spacing is anyways a minor thing), I am \
going to go with Maciej and use PEP8 style for Python (which is the style we have \
already been following in webkitpy).</div></div></div></blockquote><br \
class=""></div><div class="">I mean, I agree with this approach, but don't do it just \
because I said it. :-) These days, I code less C++ and less Python in WebKit than \
most people on this thread.</div></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: \
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; \
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: \
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; \
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">I am not doing it only because you said \
this. I discussed it with Alexey yesterday, and he was fine either way. I personally \
prefer PEP8. <span class="" style="color: rgb(69, 69, 69); font-family: \
"Helvetica Neue";">Brian Burg, Michael Catanzaro and Eric Carlson also \
supported this. That makes most of us (who expressed their opinion) favor this \
approach.</span></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">Sounds \
good. Do we need to update our style guidelines at all? Maybe just state somewhere \
that for Python our style is PEP8?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div \
class=""> - Maciej</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></body></html>
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