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List: web4lib
Subject: Re: [WEB4LIB] The Imminent Demise of this List
From: Doug Kariel <dougk () ATHABASCAU ! CA>
Date: 2020-05-13 19:24:54
Message-ID: MW3PR13MB3994754C4F495BE2DD310BE0BFBF0 () MW3PR13MB3994 ! namprd13 ! prod ! outlook ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
Hi Roy,
Thank you so much for running Web4Lib. It has been an invaluable resource =
for me working at a university that has a small staff. We deliver all of o=
ur courses through distance education -- now over the web and still send ou=
t some print material.
Thank you for the history. Over 27 years of being at Athabasca, I remember=
going through those stages and using almost all of those technologies. We=
thought we had hit the big time when had 2400 baud modems! And the beginni=
ng of the web. Email was introduced to us in library school and used exten=
sively ever since.
Web4lib provided so much helpful information about how to use the web in li=
braries. I have always appreciated everyone who posted and answered questi=
ons. A huge thank to you, Roy for running it and providing so much support=
.
I'm retiring at the end of June also. I will have many fond memories of th=
e library world and the online environment that we have used daily.
Thank you for being a mentor. I quote your comment to our staff regularly =
"Keep the complexity in the background". You shared this at a workshop of =
Canadian librarians and always remember it. It is so appropriate in the li=
brary world and many other places.
We will all treasure and appreciate your huge and many contributions to the=
Library world. I wish you all the best as you go forward. I hope you get=
to do your raft trip again!
Wishing you and everyone all the best with many thanks for the journey.
Doug
Doug Kariel. MLIS., B. Mus.
Head, Technical Services and Systems
Library and Scholarly Resources
Athabasca University
1 University Dr.
Athabasca, AB. T9S 3A3
email: dougk@athabascau.ca
phone: 780-675-6261, 1-800-788-9041, ext. 6261
http://library.athabascau.ca<http:library.athabascau.ca>
[cid:41db05c2-9b6f-4a8a-a5b4-e23e6fb2ebb6]
Athabasca University respectfully acknowledges that we are on and work on t=
he traditional lands of the Indigenous Peoples (Inuit, First Nations, M=E9t=
is) of Canada. We honour the ancestry, heritage, and gifts of the Indigenou=
s Peoples and give thanks to them.
________________________________
From: Web4Lib List <Web4Lib@listserv.uc.edu> on behalf of Roy Tennant <royt=
ennant@GMAIL.COM>
Sent: May 12, 2020 9:51 AM
To: WEB4LIB@LISTSERV.UC.EDU <WEB4LIB@LISTSERV.UC.EDU>
Subject: [WEB4LIB] The Imminent Demise of this List
Twenty-six years ago to the day I created this electronic discussion. Today=
I announce it's likely closure.
TL;DR VERSION: Either I shutdown Web4Lib or someone needs to step up and ta=
ke it over.
LONG VERSION (If you don't care for the historical context you can jump dow=
n to "What needs to happen now":
Historical Context:
After a lifetime in libraries, I'm saying goodbye.
I hate writing this message, as I love so many of you.
I've had a long, amazing, and enjoyable career. For that I want to thank my=
many mentors, fellow travelers, and those of you have inspired, challenged=
, or supported me. You all gave me something I needed, even if I didn't kno=
w it at the time. Thank you for that.
Although I worked in libraries since the age of 17, I didn't become a profe=
ssional librarian until the age of 29. So much came before, including becom=
ing a commercial whitewater river guide, and leading private whitewater riv=
er trips down the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. I was even sched=
uled to row there again May 15th this year, until it was postponed to 2021 =
due to CoViD-19. Such is life.
Since I was just entering the profession for real in 1986, I was there for =
the huge transformation of libraries -- first into computers, then the Inte=
rnet, and all that it entailed. Trying to go into it all is beyond the scop=
e of this message. Let's just say it was a wild ride. The ten year period f=
rom 1986 to 1996 was absolutely freaking insane.
We went from Usenet newsgroups and BITNET LISTSERVs through technologies li=
ke HyperCard (the web without connections to other computers), HYTELNET, Go=
pher, Veronica, and finally the Web. Meanwhile, we went from print periodic=
al indexes to stand-alone CD-ROMs to CD networks, to online. Plus we went f=
rom card catalogs to dialup to an online catalog, and then Internet access =
to it. Frankly, if you didn't live it I'm not sure how I could even begin t=
o explain it to you. We were learning every single day, and forgetting almo=
st as much at the same time. By the end of this period I had forgotten more=
programming languages than most people know today.
Web4Lib sprung out of my personal need for help. I was, sadly, involved in =
the decision that the UC Berkeley Library made in 1991 or 1992 to go with G=
opher as our online library information system. At the time, the Web requir=
ed learning an arcane markup language for not much benefit. Of course, shor=
tly thereafter (the summer of 1993) Mosaic came out and changed everything.=
But little did we know.
Once Mosaic hit, we knew that was the only game in town, and in the Spring =
of 1994 we were seeking to build a prototype web server, but we also knew w=
e needed help. We naturally looked to the Internet for that help. I receive=
d permission from my boss to start Web4Lib, based on the Gopher list starte=
d by UC Santa Barbara earlier, and that had been so helpful to us.
We announced the list on 12 May 1994 and the response was swift and shockin=
g. Growth in subscribers was much higher than anticipated (360 in 24 hours,=
about 1,000 within 2 weeks), but we just held on and went with it.
The early days were crazy. We had knock-down drag-out fights over issues li=
ke filtering that almost doomed the nascent discussion in its tracks. From =
those fights we carved out a set of policies administered by an editorial b=
oard that I think remains one of the best set of posting policies out there=
, since we only created rules out of necessity.
What Needs to Happen Now:
As I consider the future of this list, I think the need for it has declined=
. Other lists (notably Code4Lib and LITA) cover a lot of the same ground an=
d more. I personally think that it's time to retire Web4Lib, but if someone=
feels strongly about keeping it going and wants to step up to take it over=
, then I'm OK with that.
What I would like is to have whomever takes it over to take the web site at=
http://web4lib.org/ as well. It has the legacy archive, some informational=
pages, and not much else. The University of Cincinnati is hosting the list=
itself, and as far as I know that arrangement can continue. Management of =
the list these days is fairly easy. You just approve subscription requests,=
which are few and far between, and respond to requests to remove subscribe=
rs who can't remove themselves. Let me know if you're interested, otherwise=
I will begin the process of shutting it down and archiving it.
Thank you all for a great run,
Roy Tennant
--
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is a=
ddressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and or privileged informa=
tion. Please contact us immediately if you are not the intended recipient o=
f this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying o=
n it. Any communications received in error, or subsequent reply, should be =
deleted or destroyed.
---
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Hi Roy,</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Thank you so much for running Web4Lib. It has been an \
invaluable resource for me working at a university that has a small staff. We \
deliver all of our courses through distance education -- now over the web and still \
send out some print material. <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Thank you for the history. Over 27 years of being at \
Athabasca, I remember going through those stages and using almost all of those \
technologies. We thought we had hit the big time when had 2400 baud modems! And \
the beginning of the web. Email was introduced to us in library school and \
used extensively ever since.</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, \
Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Web4lib provided so much helpful information about how to use \
the web in libraries. I have always appreciated everyone who posted and \
answered questions. A huge thank to you, Roy for running it and providing so \
much support.</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; \
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> I'm retiring at the end of June also. I will have many \
fond memories of the library world and the online environment that we have used \
daily.</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; \
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Thank you for being a mentor. I quote your comment to \
our staff regularly "Keep the complexity in the background". You \
shared this at a workshop of Canadian librarians and always remember it. It is \
so appropriate in the library world and many other places.</div> <div \
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: \
rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> We will all treasure and appreciate your huge and many \
contributions to the Library world. I wish you all the best as you go \
forward. I hope you get to do your raft trip again!</div> <div \
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: \
rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Wishing you and everyone all the best with many thanks for the \
journey.</div> <div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; \
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Doug<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div id="Signature">
<div><strong></strong></div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0); \
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"> <strong></strong>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0); \
font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; \
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <strong></strong>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Doug Kariel. MLIS., B. Mus.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span>Head, Technical Services and \
Systems</span></p> <p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span>Library and \
Scholarly Resources</span></p> <p style="margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px"><span>Athabasca University<br> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span>1 University Dr.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span>Athabasca, AB. T9S \
3A3</span></p> <p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span>email: \
dougk@athabascau.ca</span></p> <p style="margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px"><span>phone: 780-675-6261, 1-800-788-9041, ext. 6261</span></p> <p \
style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span><a title="Ctrl+Click or tap to \
follow the link" href="http:library.athabascau.ca">http://library.athabascau.ca</a></span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span><img class="EmojiInsert" \
style="max-width:100%" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" \
src="cid:41db05c2-9b6f-4a8a-a5b4-e23e6fb2ebb6"></span></p> <p style="margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px"><span><font size="1" color="#140000"><font size="1" \
color="#140000"></font></font></span></p> <font size="1" color="#140000"><font \
size="1" color="#140000"> <p><span style="font-size:10pt">Athabasca University \
respectfully acknowledges that we are on and work on the traditional lands of the \
Indigenous Peoples (Inuit, First Nations, Métis) of Canada. We honour the ancestry, \
heritage, and gifts of the Indigenous Peoples and give thanks to them. </span></p>
</font></font><br>
<p></p>
</div>
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<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span><br>
</span></p>
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<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, \
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Web4Lib List <Web4Lib@listserv.uc.edu> \
on behalf of Roy Tennant <roytennant@GMAIL.COM><br> <b>Sent:</b> May 12, 2020 \
9:51 AM<br> <b>To:</b> WEB4LIB@LISTSERV.UC.EDU <WEB4LIB@LISTSERV.UC.EDU><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WEB4LIB] The Imminent Demise of this List</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Twenty-six years ago to the day I created this electronic discussion. \
Today I announce it's likely closure.<br> <br>
TL;DR VERSION: Either I shutdown Web4Lib or someone needs to step up and take it \
over.<br> <br>
LONG VERSION (If you don't care for the historical context you can jump down to \
"What needs to happen now":<br> <br>
Historical Context:<br>
<br>
After a lifetime in libraries, I'm saying goodbye. <br>
<br>
I hate writing this message, as I love so many of you. <br>
<br>
I've had a long, amazing, and enjoyable career. For that I want to thank my many \
mentors, fellow travelers, and those of you have inspired, challenged, or supported \
me. You all gave me something I needed, even if I didn't know it at the time. Thank \
you for that.<br>
<br>
Although I worked in libraries since the age of 17, I didn't become a professional \
librarian until the age of 29. So much came before, including becoming a commercial \
whitewater river guide, and leading private whitewater river trips down the Colorado \
River through the Grand Canyon. I was even scheduled to row there again May 15th \
this year, until it was postponed to 2021 due to CoViD-19. Such is life.<br> <br>
Since I was just entering the profession for real in 1986, I was there for the huge \
transformation of libraries -- first into computers, then the Internet, and all that \
it entailed. Trying to go into it all is beyond the scope of this message. Let's just \
say it was a wild ride. The ten year period from 1986 to 1996 was absolutely \
freaking insane.<br> <br>
We went from Usenet newsgroups and BITNET LISTSERVs through technologies like \
HyperCard (the web without connections to other computers), HYTELNET, Gopher, \
Veronica, and finally the Web. Meanwhile, we went from print periodical indexes to \
stand-alone CD-ROMs to CD networks, to online. Plus we went from card catalogs to \
dialup to an online catalog, and then Internet access to it. Frankly, if you didn't \
live it I'm not sure how I could even begin to explain it to you. We were learning \
every single day, and forgetting almost as much at the same time. By the end of this \
period I had forgotten more programming languages than most people know today. <br>
<br>
Web4Lib sprung out of my personal need for help. I was, sadly, involved in the \
decision that the UC Berkeley Library made in 1991 or 1992 to go with Gopher as our \
online library information system. At the time, the Web required learning an arcane \
markup language for not much benefit. Of course, shortly thereafter (the summer of \
1993) Mosaic came out and changed everything. But little did we know. <br>
<br>
Once Mosaic hit, we knew that was the only game in town, and in the Spring of 1994 we \
were seeking to build a prototype web server, but we also knew we needed help. We \
naturally looked to the Internet for that help. I received permission from my boss to \
start Web4Lib, based on the Gopher list started by UC Santa Barbara earlier, and \
that had been so helpful to us. <br>
<br>
We announced the list on 12 May 1994 and the response was swift and shocking. Growth \
in subscribers was much higher than anticipated (360 in 24 hours, about 1,000 within \
2 weeks), but we just held on and went with it. <br>
<br>
The early days were crazy. We had knock-down drag-out fights over issues like \
filtering that almost doomed the nascent discussion in its tracks. From those fights \
we carved out a set of policies administered by an editorial board that I think \
remains one of the best set of posting policies out there, since we only created \
rules out of necessity.<br> <br>
What Needs to Happen Now:<br>
<br>
As I consider the future of this list, I think the need for it has declined. Other \
lists (notably Code4Lib and LITA) cover a lot of the same ground and more. I \
personally think that it's time to retire Web4Lib, but if someone feels strongly \
about keeping it going and wants to step up to take it over, then I'm OK with that. \
<br> <br>
What I would like is to have whomever takes it over to take the web site at <a \
href="http://web4lib.org/"> http://web4lib.org/</a> as well. It has the legacy \
archive, some informational pages, and not much else. The University of Cincinnati is \
hosting the list itself, and as far as I know that arrangement can continue. \
Management of the list these days is fairly easy. You just approve subscription \
requests, which are few and far between, and respond to requests to remove \
subscribers who can't remove themselves. Let me know if you're interested, otherwise \
I will begin the process of shutting it down and archiving it. <br>
<br>
Thank you all for a great run,<br>
Roy Tennant<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
--
<blockquote>This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is \
addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and or privileged information. \
Please contact us immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this \
communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any \
communications received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or \
destroyed. </blockquote>
---<br>
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