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List:       vim-dev
Subject:    RE: [kvim-dev] RE: Vim's future ?
From:       Philippe FREMY <P.FREMY () OBERTHURCS ! com>
Date:       2002-11-13 9:05:19
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[ I am replying publically because your mail is a good abstract of the
situation ]

Ross Presser said:

> Your sole goal appears to be to achieve a vim KDE component. You don't
offer
> anything at all to the bulk of VIM users who do not now and may never use
> KDE. 

Yes, that's true. The target of a vim component, be it a KDE, Gnome or
anything else, is different from the vim user base, although there are
overlaps, like me.


> You make vague promises that compartmentalized code is more
> maintainable or that more people will use VIM if it is a KDE component,
but
> all you're really interested in is having someone else do the work that
you
> want done in the way you want it done.

That is a bit exagerated. It is true that I do not have time to contribute
to such a vim re-organisation. However, if Bram accepts vim to be slightly
reorganised, I may find people willing to participate in the change. Sofar,
Bram has not been willing to accept any change suggestion, so it is not even
time to start coding.

> If you are so positive that a componentized vim would be useful, then go
> ahead and start work on it. 

This is probably what we are going to do.

> Vim's source is available; you can hack it
> apart to your heart's desire.  Maybe you'll get somewhere. 

We probably won't start from the vim base because that would be too painful.
I regret it because vim is a stable code. Unfortunately, it appears to be
very difficult to do something else than a vim application with it. 

So we will code yet another vim clone.

> But it is clear that Bram does not share your goal; 

It is not that clear. Bram is interested in having vim more integrated into
IDE. His project and a vim component have many common goals.

> he finds [...] your advice ("don't waste your time on aap, go use
Kdevelop") useless.

I did not say that in this spirit. Like I have tried to use vim to build a
vi component, I think it is worth trying to use existing projects to build
new one. If no code can be used, ideas certainly can be picked.

> Maybe you should start with some other already-componentized editor and
turn
> it into a vim clone.  You'll be working with a code style that you already
> like; you'll be working towards a goal that you feel is worthy; the work
> will go a lot faster for you than ripping vim to shreds would go; and
you'll
> be leaving the rest of us the hell alone. 

It seems that the discussion is over and you are going to be relieved from
my presence soon. :-)

I still think it would be an interesting addition for vim to separate it
into a reusable vim-engine and a vim application front-end. This would make
vim reusable in many context and not just hacky half-integrated components.
But it is not going to happen for many reasons.

	regards,

	Philippe 
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