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List:       vim-dev
Subject:    RE: [kvim-dev] RE: Vim's future ?
From:       Philippe FREMY <P.FREMY () OBERTHURCS ! com>
Date:       2002-11-12 18:10:40
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> Philippe Fremy wrote:
> 
> > > Would this problem be avoided if Vim wasn't embedded, but floated free
as
> > > another top-level window? 
> > 
> > Then vim is not embedded, and it doesn't make sense to have a component.
You
> > do not need components to have a vim editor running separately from
> > KDEvelop.
> 
> It looks like we have a different view on what you call "integrated".
> In my view the essential thing is that the editor and the other tools
> communicate.  For example, the debugger tells the editor where
> breakpoints are and the current PC position, so that the editor can
> display glyphs at the right lines. 

This is not integration. This is communication or interoperability.

> The editor offers the user the
> possibility to place or delete breakpoints, this is reported to the
> debugger.

You keep telling me that but setting breakpoints is exactly the thing I do
_not_ want vim to do. I want vim to edit files, not to set breakpoints.
KDevelop can set breakpoints without vim.

> The other part of integration is sharing a toplevel window, with menus
> and toolbar.

This is integration yes.

> Although the full integration would require both to work, many users
> will be quite pleased if they just get the first part.  The Sun Workshop
> interface does it this way and it works quite well.

On this, I have the same attitude that people critisising vi clones. Either
you get full vi compatbility or you don't claim you are compatible with vi.
The same goes for integration. 

I don't like half-finished projects and second class citizens. Either I get
full integration or I get none. If someone is interested in half
integration, he can take our code and do it.

> Just having an editor run as part of another toplevel window, without
> any communication about what is being edited, sounds pointless to me.

You are missing the point again. When vim is integrated, there is a lot of
communication. You have read the KDE interfaces. All of them are used to
communicate in both direction with the component. This allow the editor to
focus on editing and not diffing or setting breakpoints or whatever. And the
framework focus on providing tools, like CVS integration, diffing, project
agregation.

Now that you understand what integrated means, do you see why the current
vim makes this very difficult ? The best way for a component to work fine
would be to have access directly to the vim's internal and take care of the
gui in our own way and not in the way defined by ui.c .

	Philippe
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