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List: veritas-bu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] ADDL SUMMARY: SAN Tape Drive / Storage / Host Connectivity
From: "Sean Mohr" <smohr () ctsinc ! net>
Date: 2003-04-28 23:33:47
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I have seen and understand the stand from IBM, they are not the firsts
and will not be the last to make a statement about this topic. From a
pure performance point of view, if you would like to get rid of any
potential HBA bottlenecks, then I agree that having separate HBA's would
desirable. Unfortunately, real world economics usually limit this end
(costs per hba, ports on switch, free bus slots etc etc).
It is true that SUN has there internal tape drives (usually a tape on
D240 with the boot drives for the 3800,4800,6800 series) on the same bus
as mentioned below, but I believe the bandwidth in which we are
referring to (Fiber Channels SAN, and SSO Tape Backup Configurations)
are not even in the same ball park as the bandwidth of a D240 (or
similar unit).
I believe the gentlemen's point was directed to the SAN arena not SCSI
bus drives / tape devices.
Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-admin@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-admin@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Donaldson,
Mark
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 7:19 PM
To: 'Chris Madden'; Veritas Users NetBackup (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] ADDL SUMMARY: SAN Tape Drive / Storage / Host
Connectivity
I'd have to protest the paragraph below. Every solaris box, except the
most recent ones (and sometimes even then) have been sold with disks &
tapes sharing busses. It's not uncommon to have small tape drives &
boot drives sharing the same internal bus.
Here's a recently purchased E6800
/dev/sg/c3t6l0: (/dev/rmt/0): "HP C5683A"
<snip>
/dev/sg/c3t0l0: (/dev/rdsk/c3t0d0): "FUJITSU MAN3184M SUN18G"
...showing a disk drive & the "internal" tape drive on single bus. It's
been like this for years, with CDs, tapes, & various types of disks
sharing SCSI busses.
I smell cop-out here from IBM.
$.02 - M
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Madden [mailto:maddenca@myrealbox.com]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 4:04 PM
To: Veritas Users NetBackup (E-mail)
Subject: [Veritas-bu] ADDL SUMMARY: SAN Tape Drive / Storage / Host
Connectivity
<snippage>
Furthermore, older SCSI drivers were written using a single SCSI profile
for the whole adapter. This was fine since disk and tape were rarely, if
ever, mixed, so a single profile (one for disk or one for tape) could be
used for the whole adapter and work fine. Often this is not under the
user's control - the driver picks a profile based on what devices it
sees. HBA drivers could certainly be written to allow different profiles
to be used for different devices at the same time on a single adapter,
but this is not yet a common practice. Thus, if you do mix disk and tape
on a single HBA, you end up either using a disk profile for both disk
and tape, or a tape for both disk and tape. Some devices will be using a
non-optimal profile.
<snippage>
Cheers,
-Chris
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have seen and understand the stand from <span
class=GramE>IBM,</span> they are not the firsts and will not be the last to
make a statement about this topic. <span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>From a pure performance point of view, if
you would like to get rid of any potential HBA bottlenecks, then I agree that
having separate <span class=SpellE>HBA’s</span> would desirable.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Unfortunately, real world economics
usually limit this end (costs per <span class=SpellE>hba</span>, ports on
switch, free bus slots etc <span \
class=SpellE>etc</span>).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It is true that SUN has there internal
tape drives (usually a tape on D240 with the boot drives for the 3800<span
class=GramE>,4800,6800</span> series) on the same bus as mentioned below, but I
believe the bandwidth in which we are referring to (Fiber Channels SAN, and SSO
Tape Backup Configurations) are not even in the same ball park as the bandwidth
of a D240 (or similar unit).<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> \
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I believe the gentlemen’s point was
directed to the SAN arena not SCSI bus drives / tape \
devices.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sean<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
veritas-bu-admin@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-admin@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Donaldson, Mark<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 28, 2003 7:19
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Chris Madden'; Veritas Users
NetBackup (E-mail)<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Veritas-bu] ADDL
SUMMARY: SAN Tape Drive / Storage / Host Connectivity</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I'd have to protest the
paragraph below. Every solaris box, except the most recent ones (and
sometimes even then) have been sold with disks & tapes sharing
busses. It's not uncommon to have small tape drives & boot drives
sharing the same internal bus.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Here's a recently
purchased E6800</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>/dev/sg/c3t6l0:
(/dev/rmt/0): "HP C5683A"<br>
<snip><br>
/dev/sg/c3t0l0: (/dev/rdsk/c3t0d0): "FUJITSU MAN3184M \
SUN18G"</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>...showing a disk drive
& the "internal" tape drive on single bus. It's been like
this for years, with CDs, tapes, & various types of disks sharing SCSI
busses.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I smell cop-out here from
IBM.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>$.02 - \
M</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Chris Madden
[mailto:maddenca@myrealbox.com]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 28, 2003 4:04
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Veritas Users NetBackup
(E-mail)<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Veritas-bu] ADDL
SUMMARY: SAN Tape Drive / Storage / Host Connectivity</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> <snippage> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Furthermore, older SCSI drivers were
written using a single SCSI profile for the whole adapter. This was fine since
disk and tape were rarely, if ever, mixed, so a single profile (one for disk or
one for tape) could be used for the whole adapter and work fine. Often this is
not under the user's control - the driver picks a profile based on what devices
it sees. HBA drivers could certainly be written to allow different profiles to
be used for different devices at the same time on a single adapter, but this is
not yet a common practice. Thus, if you do mix disk and tape on a single HBA,
you end up either using a disk profile for both disk and tape, or a tape for both
disk and tape. Some devices will be using a non-optimal \
profile.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> <snippage> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Cheers,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>-Chris</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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