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List:       tapestry-user
Subject:    Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
From:       Bob Harner <bobharner () gmail ! com>
Date:       2010-11-27 17:37:06
Message-ID: AANLkTintJ0OJmy5i3zN61-=eC-VgSU+4RdQ9vn6KBj16 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Maybe it' d be best if there were no live links to Confluence, but just the
URL written as plain text? That would also help to keep spider traffic down=
.
On Nov 27, 2010 12:03 PM, "Christophe Cordenier" <
christophe.cordenier@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> It seems that the 'documentation' page has links on confluence
> cwiki.apache.org. And when confluence is down (at the time I write this
> mail) firefox fails to load the page fully and quickly, this is a bit
> annoying...
>
> I will look into this, but you have some hints
>
> Christophe.
>
> 2010/11/27 Juan E. Maya <maya.juan@gmail.com>
>
>> Katia, 'm a native spanish speaker and very interested in your idea. I
>> would really like to give back something to the Tapestry Community.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Katia Aresti <katiaaresti@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > 2010/11/26 fran=E7ois facon <fra.facon@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> Hi Katia,
>> >>
>> >> I would like to speak Spanish or English as well as you speak french.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Thank you Fran=E7ois, but the french I write that you might read is
>> corrected
>> > - a lot - for several people who review my articles (technically and i=
n
>> > order to correct my french) before publishing. I write for French
public,
>> > and I need to improve my french, so that's why I write in french.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Perhaps you will get more technical feedback, if you write your
>> >> documentation in English.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yes, probably. You might also be aware about the fact that in France
>> books
>> > like "Spring par la pratique" are even more successful than "Spring in
>> > Action". Why ? Because people like to read in their own language. You
>> might
>> > agree or not, personally I don't care about reading english french or
>> > spanish, but that's not the way how most people work. And the best
>> > documentation will be always written in our mother tong language.
>> >
>> > Have you asked yourself why is Tapestry very successful in Germany or
>> > Austria ? Is it perhaps for the very successful German book written by
>> Igor
>> > ? Why does Thiago write a documentation in Portuguese ? Maybe Brazilia=
n
>> and
>> > Portuguese people, for example, might appreciate this documentation ..=
.
>> Who
>> > could be better than him writing a Portuguese Tapestry 5 book ?
>> > I'm not pretending to do something like Igor or Thiago, I'm just
thinking
>> > about a beginner tutorial.
>> > Why would be better a beginner tutorial in english ? Is it because thi=
s
>> > tutorial doesn't exist ? Are you kidding ?
>> >
>> > @All
>> > Anyway, If somebody here is Spanish or writes Spanish and is intereste=
d
>> on
>> > this project, just let me now.
>> >
>> > Katia
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <katiaaresti@gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >> > Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in
>> english
>> >> for
>> >> > tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
>> >> > Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality
>> tutorial
>> >> > in
>> >> > english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not
a
>> >> > matter
>> >> > of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot
in
>> >> > french
>> >> > and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french,
>> not
>> >> my
>> >> > technical content.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very
very
>> >> very
>> >> > ... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve
>> >> spanish
>> >> > content.
>> >> >
>> >> > Katia
>> >> >
>> >> > 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <javier@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > > IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything
in
>> >> > English
>> >> > > first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. Tha=
t
>> way,
>> >> > > whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in
the
>> >> end,
>> >> > > will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when
the
>> >> > content
>> >> > > has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribi=F3:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<katiaaresti@gmail.com>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> @Javier,
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial /
>> something
>> >> in
>> >> > >>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
>> >> > >>> In Spanish :)
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Katia
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<javier@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich St=E4rk escribi=F3:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Javier,
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your
>> proposed
>> >> > >>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org an=
d
>> >> I'll
>> >> > >>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you ma=
y
>> >> start
>> >> > >>>>> contributing to the documentation.
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> Uli
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some
>> >> comments:
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled=
"
>> post
>> >> > on
>> >> > >>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to
>> know
>> >> > that
>> >> > >>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there'=
s
>> now
>> >> a
>> >> > >>>>>> post
>> >> > >>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about
the
>> >> > concept
>> >> > >>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such
>> >> visibility.
>> >> > >>>>>> Do
>> >> > >>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get
on
>> >> > their
>> >> > >>>>>> first visit?
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are
a
>> lot
>> >> > of
>> >> > >>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating=
.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don'=
t
>> make
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the
>> >> > instructions
>> >> > >>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be
out
>> of
>> >> > date
>> >> > >>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work)
than
>> >> have
>> >> > >>>>>> the
>> >> > >>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId,
>> >> version
>> >> > >>>>>> and
>> >> > >>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those
values
>> >> are
>> >> > >>>>>> not
>> >> > >>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and
paste
>> >> the
>> >> > >>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changin=
g
>> >> across
>> >> > >>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user
>> has
>> >> > this
>> >> > >>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user som=
e
>> >> > pointers
>> >> > >>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in
>> >> > src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>> >> > >>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the
>> >> tutorial
>> >> > >>>>>> but
>> >> > >>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might no=
t
>> even
>> >> > >>>>>> bother to go there.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code tha=
t
>> the
>> >> > user
>> >> > >>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a
few
>> >> > lines
>> >> > >>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link
components
>> in
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about
>> topics
>> >> > not
>> >> > >>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door.
>> Strip
>> >> it
>> >> > >>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servle=
t
>> API
>> >> > >>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate
>> chapter
>> >> so
>> >> > >>>>>> they
>> >> > >>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no
>> indication
>> >> > of
>> >> > >>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in
the
>> >> > >>>>>> tutorial.
>> >> > >>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to
>> follow.
>> >> > It's
>> >> > >>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've
got
>> >> ahead
>> >> > >>>>>> of
>> >> > >>>>>> you.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the
>> >> barrier
>> >> > >>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry
>> does
>> >> for
>> >> > >>>>>> you
>> >> > >>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people
don't
>> >> get
>> >> > >>>>>> past
>> >> > >>>>>> the initial experience.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribi=F3:
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
>> hard
>> >> on
>> >> > >>>>>>> revising
>> >> > >>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
>> >> Tapestry
>> >> > >>>>>>> Web
>> >> > >>>>>>> Site:
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to
>> >> users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
>> >> > >>>>>>> [SITE]
>> >> > >>>>>>> in the subject.
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.or=
g
>> >> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.or=
g
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Christophe Cordenier.
>
> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com


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