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List:       tapestry-user
Subject:    RE: Voice of dissent, was (Re: Tapestry vs Struts)
From:       "Auradkar, Rajendra V." <RVAURADKAR () stthomas ! edu>
Date:       2004-01-30 16:41:41
Message-ID: DBB424F19BDD6F4981B69A326EA38BB20117796F () EXCH3 ! stthomas ! edu
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I agree with Kevin.  Some people tell me that if I dont know how to build my
own jar from CVS I should not be part of the open source community.  I
disagree.  In this case making 3.0 beta 4 available through a jar download
will be immensely useful.
Thanks,
Raj Auradkar

  _____  

From: Kevin C. Dorff [mailto:kdorff@kcp.com]
Sent: Fri 1/30/2004 10:35 AM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: Voice of dissent, was (Re: Tapestry vs Struts)



I understand that documentation is the root reason for the delay of the 
3.0 release, but, I would really like to see a 3.0 beta 4 or some such 
that includes the current patches from CVS ... I have seen a few things 
where people point out bugs and they are told "go get the latest from 
CVS" -- I would guess there are more people than myself who don't have 
time to figure out HOW to get the latest version from CVS. It would be 
of great benefit to the community if instead of this answer somebody 
would just make beta 4 available that includes all of these fixes, since 
3.0 release doesn't seem to be on the calendar for the next couple months. 

Kevin 

Mindbridge wrote: 

>Hi, 
> 
>I am late to this party, but I hope not too late. 
> 
>While the post is a good reaction and does make good points, I think it
goes 
>too far and makes clames I cannot just let pass by. I can comment on each
of 
>the points, but I believe there is no need -- this post was deliberately 
>controversial in order to force some issues. I am sure Luis knows the 
>responses. Nevertheless, there is one item.that simply begs for a comment. 
> 
> 
>* Howard and the 7 thieves 
> 
>Howard does not have "the power" de jure. Any -1 from anyone of those 7 
>people can shoot his code or ideas down unconditionally. This is the nature

>of Apache. 
> 
>Howard does have power de facto. This is _earned_. Besides being the author

>of the framework, past history has shown that he makes good decisions, and 
>you can normally _assume_ that he will take the right road in a difficult 
>situation. Thus he is implicity trusted and his opinion counts for a lot. I

>_really_ do not see this being a bad thing, on the contrary. 
>You can be sure that if he starts monkeying around, however, the support he

>has will vanish. He does not, so there you go. 
> 
>Finally, you most definitely point your arrows at the wrong target. If
there 
>is a problem, it is not with the development of the framework. There are 
>plenty of non-Howard plans and actions there. You can easily see this by 
>checking the csv log, or looking at the discussions of features for 3.1 at 
>tapestry-dev, for example. (we do not have any desire to change 3.0
anymore, 
>so we are deferring everything that can be deferred to 3.1) Next to me I 
>have a list of 5 or 6 really major items that will be voted upon and
checked 
>in as soon as the 3.1 hunting season opens. Interestingly, some of them 
>address precisely your points. 
> 
>The real problem is with documentation. If there is a place where the ball 
>gets dropped when Howard is not around, this is it. For some reason this is

>not favourite pasttime for people (it takes _me_ far longer that it should,

>for example, so I try to avoid), so any help in that respect (e.g. Kevin C.

>Dorff's tutorial modifications) is both helpful to everyone and extremely 
>appreciated. 
> 
>This is the root of the 3.0 delay. If it was not for this, an official 
>version will probably have been out a few months ago. 
> 
>Best regards, 
>-mb 
> 
> 
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> 
>  
> 



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