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List:       suse-linux-uk-schools
Subject:    RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft, Linux, this list
From:       "Jonathan Bacon" <j.bacon () delta ! wlv ! ac ! uk>
Date:       2001-12-06 9:56:24
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Hi Roger,

Thankyou for writing this email to set some things straight about the
purpose of this list. I agree 100% with your points.

I believe this list could be instrumental for many schools getting a
better deal on computer software and operating systems. Linux certainly
has the capability to do great things for schools and we need to discuss
methods of getting Linux into schools and educational institutions.

Like I have said before, I don't have an enourmas amount of time spare
at the moment, but it may be an idea if we discuss how we can best
formulate our efforts.

I think the following ideas could be applied to our efforts, and with
some discussion they could materialise:

 - Develop a website which can host information on this subject and
plans we have

 - Present promotional material regarding Linux's usage in schools on
the site

 - Present case studies where Linux has been used on the site

 - Develop online petitions and advisaries for things such as the
Tony/Bill meeting and plans.

I am happy to build a site which can be used towards meeting this goal,
but I will not be able to provide much content. If you guys can
guarentee the content and updating the site, I am happy to build a
PHP/MySQL based site for this.

Thoughts?

	Jono

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Whittaker [mailto:roger@suse.co.uk]
> Sent: 05 December 2001 23:27
> To: Schools List
> Cc: Jasmin Ul-Haque; Malcolm Yates
> Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft, Linux, this list
> 
> 
> There's been an interesting exchange of views and I'd like to 
> take this
> opportunity to summarise and possibly caricature some of 
> them, and at the
> same time make some comments.
> 
> 1) "This is a technical list and 'political' views are out of 
> place here."
> 
> When I set up the list, there was no manifesto - all were 
> welcome to join
> and talk about whatever interested them.  However it was 
> understood that
> the purpose of the list was connected with Linux and Education.
> Government policies on software procurement are quite clearly closely
> related to this purpose and in my view very valid subjects 
> for discussion.
> 
> 2) "Microsoft is totally and uniquely evil: anyone who says anything
> remotely favourable about Microsoft is equally evil and 
> should be flamed,
> strung-up, shot, expelled from the list etc."
> 
> This has never been my position.  Personally I think Microsoft
> makes some good desktop software (e.g. Excel) and some appallingly
> bad operating systems.
> 
> However, Microsoft's business practices have been and continue to be
> seriously worrying to anyone who values fairness and decency 
> in business.
> Linux is uniquely threatening to Microsoft because it is hard 
> to see how
> their traditional weapons ("embrace and extend", "buy out and
> incorporate") can be applied to fighting against it. It is 
> because of this
> that people who value Linux have to be on their guard against 
> some novel
> and disturbing developments such as attempts to use the law in the US
> against open source software as such.
> 
> On the other hand, anyone who wants to make points about the 
> superiority
> of open source software, the iniquity of Microsoft's business 
> practices
> (and much else) would be well advised to read the 
> Advocacy-Howto.  Telling
> someone who has not had the information or the time to think things
> through to a logical conclusion that he is an idiot, in the pay of a
> particular company, or deliberately trying to create dissent 
> is not the
> best way of winning him round to your point of view.
> 
> 3) "People who don't agree with the majority opinions on this 
> list should
> get lost - why did they join in the first place if they think 
> x, y or z?"
> 
> The list is failing in its purpose if it is not
> 
> 	a) inclusive of all who want to join, lurk, contribute or argue,
> 	   whatever their opinions.
> 
> 	b) aiming through dialogue and discussion to educate and inform
> 	   all who participate in it.
> 
> 4) Linux will soon be the only operating system that matters.
> 
> This is true and all the rest is ephemeral on any reasonable 
> historical
> time scale.  Linux began in August 1991.  In ten years it has come
> from nowhere to the point where it is the major threat to 
> Microsoft and at
> the same time moving into the space previously occupied by 
> the commercial
> forms of Unix.  Not to mention the desktop, handhelds, 
> embedded systems
> and more.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> 
> Please continue to 'have a lot of fun ...'
> 
> Best wishes to all
> 
> Roger
> 
> PS:
> 
> Please accept my apologies for the fact that I have far less time to
> participate here than I should - however I value and am very 
> grateful for
> the enthusiasm for Linux which so many people on this list 
> have.  Also for
> the fact that people are providing support for each other at 
> a very high
> level in some cases.
> 
> PPS:
> 
> There are good reasons to suppose that the 'Bill and Tony 
> show' which I
> predicted would take place tomorrow has been cancelled 
> precisely because
> of the leaks to the Register and elsewhere which happened 
> last week.  If
> so, although it may not make a great difference to the 
> outcome in terms of
> what the Government actually buys in due course, I think it is still
> something about which we can do just a little bit of 
> 'Rejoice, Rejoice'.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -------------------
> Roger Whittaker
> SuSE Linux Ltd
> The Kinetic Centre
> Theobald Street
> Borehamwood
> Herts
> WD6 4PJ
> 
> ------------------
>   020 8387 1482
> ------------------
>  roger@suse.co.uk
> ------------------
> 
> 
> 
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