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List:       suse-linux-e
Subject:    Re: [SLE] ...and speaking of SuSE / Novell...
From:       "Steven T. Hatton" <hattons () globalsymmetry ! com>
Date:       2005-11-17 18:10:59
Message-ID: 200511171310.59848.hattons () globalsymmetry ! com
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On Thursday 17 November 2005 12:46 pm, Andre Truter wrote:
> On 11/17/05, Peter Van Lone <petervl@gmail.com> wrote:
> > right .. it's called experience. 600 hours is only 15 weeks of
> > experience. I don't have a problem with it, and did not complain. What
> > I orginally said was "stop calling names of linux newbies that
> > rely/use the GUI on a server to get work done"
>
> Yes, I agree that calling newbies names for using a GUI is wrong.
> I have seen a number of newbies that start out with installing a GUI
> on a server, until I show them that it is not really needed.
> Now they run GUI stuff they need over ssh to thier workstations.  :-)

You /can/ run the entire DM over SSH.  Sometimes it's convenient.  For 
example, you may be confined to Windows and want a KDM.  You can use Cygwin/X 
on the Wintel box and start the KDE on that X server from a Linux or Unix 
box.  Then you use that to manage the other X clients from other hosts on the 
network.  There are all kinds of reasons for doing things that way.

> I think one thing where MS damaged people is by instilling this idea
> that a good server should have a GUI.

It should have GUI tools.  I really whish people would have realized the value 
of KSnuffle, and maintained it.  I have yet to see a viable replacement.  
That Gtk thing people have told me works just as well doesn't come close.  
There were some other network monitoring tools around in the early days of 
the KDE which have vanished, and not been replaced by equivalent tools.

> When I was still a Windows user, I used to think of UNIX as an old,
> outdated system, with a horrible user-interface.  All mono-chrome..
> That was until I actually saw a real live UNIX machine and worked on
> it.  It opened my eyes.
> I was lucky, I suppose, that my first interaction with UNIX was from a
> Sun Sparcstation, running CDE, 

Why do you think I contacted sun and suggested they get behind open source 
desktops? 

> I never really used the Sun box for anything else, than it's X-server,
> so I could run Nedit (a graphical editor) on the HP box.

There is only One True Editor.

> > lists of people carping about "noobs that put a gui on a server" ...
> > well, damn ... if it makes the transition and traslation to linux
> > easier why, as a linux advocate, would you (not you personally) want
> > to be so freaking hostile about it?
>
> I don't have a problem with noobs putting a GUI on a server, I have a
> problem with experienced admins running a GUI on a server. (I did not
> mean to offend noobs, sorry)

I don't have a problem with anybody using the tools they feel most comfortable 
with. If it gets the job done, it gets the job done.  And GUIs often enable 
me to do things more quickely, and to identify problems more easily.

> I also have a problem with SLES defaulting to a GUI install.

What I have a problem with is that it seems difficult to install SuSE Linux 
without a GUI.  Too often, installing things which shouldn't have 
dependencies on GUI rpms have such dependencies.

> I 
> expected it to default to the minimal install, or options like
> "Webserver", "Mail server", "File Server", etc and then you pick the
> options you want.
> But the default Graphical desktop install threw me a bit.

I agree.  There should be a basic server that has no GUI stuff at all.   

> 2) You set up a LTSP server where people will run desktops from dumb
> terminals.

Such as Windows XP, yer catchin' on!

Steven

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