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List: squeak-dev
Subject: cut the crap (RE: [squeak-dev] The future of Squeak & Pharo (was Re:
From: "Sebastian Sastre" <ssastre () seaswork ! com>
Date: 2009-06-29 13:08:05
Message-ID: !~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAx5oTyKKcHEiH5jLobrYqEMKAAAAQAAAATcazQu7j6kaaVS4Bdk/M7gEAAAAA () seaswork ! com
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Comitees set to design horses end up implementing giraffes.
Forcing anything will be paid with momentum. I don't think you want to loose it.
Want to start your own movment? nobody will stop you. Go ahead fork and show
results.
You probably have to prioritize one of the current projects. Nothing wrong with
that. Is your choice so is your problem.
Nothing is going to die. Each tool is doing its job decently so why don't we
stop the bullsh*t and keep it organic?
I mean like less talk, more progress.
On both projects.
Don't you have real problems to get solved? then put your momentum there
_____
De: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] En nombre de Stephen Pair
Enviado el: Monday, June 29, 2009 09:04
Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Asunto: Re: [squeak-dev] The future of Squeak & Pharo (was Re: [Pharo-project]
[ANN] Pharo MIT license clean)
2009/6/29 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si>
Juan Vuletich pravi:
> I don't agree with this at all. The biggest problems Cuis and Pharo are
> trying to fix are the endless discussions, the weak leadership and the
> impossibility to build consensus in fundamental decisions.
I agree completelly!
Me too. The fact is that committee and consensus based process, while it can
work, will always be much slower and often unsatisfactory to a large percentage
of the community (until our intellects are all intimately coupled (like the
Borg), I suspect this will remain the case). I see no reason to merge squeak
with pharo, cuis or eToys. These forks of squeak are successful in large part
because they forked from the main squeak. They are driven by people that have a
very specific vision of what they want and there happen to be other people that
believe in that same vision and contribute. They don't have to seek approval or
build any sort of consensus from any committee. They alone get to decide to
what degree they listen to their own community.
- Stephen
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796245112-29062009><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>Comitees set to design horses end up implementing
giraffes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796245112-29062009><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>Forcing anything will be paid with momentum.
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=796245112-29062009><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>I don't think you want to loose it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796245112-29062009><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>Want to start your own movment? nobody will stop you. Go
ahead fork and show results.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796245112-29062009>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796245112-29062009>
<DIV><SPAN class=796245112-29062009><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>You probably have to prioritize one of the current projects. Nothing
wrong with that. Is your choice so is your problem.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT
face="Trebuchet MS" color=#0000ff size=2>Nothing is going to die.
</FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=796245112-29062009>Each tool is doing its job decently
so </SPAN><SPAN class=796245112-29062009>why</SPAN> <SPAN
class=796245112-29062009>don't </SPAN>we stop the bullsh*t and keep it
organic<SPAN
class=796245112-29062009>?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=796245112-29062009>I mean like less talk, more progress.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=796245112-29062009>On both projects.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=796245112-29062009>Don't you have real problems to get solved? then put
your momentum there</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=es dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>De:</B>
squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] <B>En nombre de
</B>Stephen Pair<BR><B>Enviado el:</B> Monday, June 29, 2009
09:04<BR><B>Para:</B> The general-purpose Squeak developers
list<BR><B>Asunto:</B> Re: [squeak-dev] The future of Squeak & Pharo (was
Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo MIT license clean)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2009/6/29 Janko Mivšek <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si">janko.mivsek@eranova.si</A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Juan
Vuletich pravi:<BR>
<DIV class=im><BR>> I don't agree with this at all. The biggest problems
Cuis and Pharo are<BR>> trying to fix are the endless discussions, the
weak leadership and the<BR>> impossibility to build consensus in
fundamental decisions.<BR><BR></DIV>I agree completelly!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Me too. The fact is that committee and consensus based process,
while it can work, will always be much slower and often unsatisfactory to a
large percentage of the community (until our intellects are all intimately
coupled (like the Borg), I suspect this will remain the case). I see no
reason to merge squeak with pharo, cuis or eToys. These forks of squeak
are successful in large part because they forked from the main squeak.
They are driven by people that have a very specific vision of what they
want and there happen to be other people that believe in that same vision and
contribute. They don't have to seek approval or build any sort of
consensus from any committee. They alone get to decide to what degree
they listen to their own community.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>- Stephen</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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