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List: sip-implementors
Subject: RE: [RE: [RE: [Sip-implementors] billing information]]
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen () dynamicsoft ! com>
Date: 2001-04-27 8:51:48
Message-ID: B65B4F8437968F488A01A940B21982BF0128C06F () DYN-EXCH-001 ! dynamicsoft ! com
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There are a lot of underlying assumptions in the DCS model that motivate
their requirement. Primary amongst them is that they wish to bill, per
minute, for calls between two IP connected devices, and furthermore, wish to
tie resource reservation to the existence of a call, such that a SIP call is
needed for resource reservation to be allowed. Thats a lot of assumptions.
If you bill for actual resources you provide, you won't have this problem.
However, this is not the appropriate fora for launching into a debate on the
relative merits of DCS. Suffice it to say that theirs is not a general
requirement, which is why it is not on the standards track.
-Jonathan R.
---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg 72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist First Floor
dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Krishna Sai [mailto:sipfinity@usa.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 8:43 AM
> To: Jonathan Rosenberg; Krishna Sai; Takumi Ohba;
> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu
> Cc: anish.mehra@jax.ecitele.com; sreedhar.pampati@jax.ecitele.com
> Subject: Re: [RE: [RE: [Sip-implementors] billing information]]
>
>
> I quote from "draft-dcsgroup-sip-proxy-proxy-04.txt", which
> defines two
> extension headers, "DCS-Billing-ID" and "DCS-Billing-Info", (note that
> these are NOT in the IETF standards track).
>
>
> "For Usage Accounting records, it is necessary to have an
> identifier
> that can be associated with all the event records produced for the
> call. Call-ID cannot be used as such an identifier since it is
> selected by the originating user agent, and may not be unique among
> all past calls as well as current calls. Further, since this
> identifier is to be used by the service provider, it should be
> chosen in a manner and in a format that meets the service
> provider's
> needs.
>
> Billing information may not necessarily be unique for each user
> (consider the case of calls from an office all billed to the same
> account). Billing information may not necessarily be identical for
> all calls made by a single user (consider prepaid calls,
> credit card
> calls, collect calls, etc). It is therefore necessary to carry
> billing information separate from the calling and called party
> identification. Furthermore, some billing models call for split-
> charging where multiple entities are billed for portions of the
> call."
>
>
>
> > I do not think such a thing is needed.
> >
> > I will also note that there is no such header on an IETF
> standards track.
> >
> > SIP already defines ways to correlate requests into
> transactions, calls,
> and
> > call-legs. I see no reason for the definition of additional
> fields to
> convey
> > exactly the same information.
> >
> > -Jonathan R.
> >
> > ---
> > Jonathan D. Rosenberg 72 Eagle Rock Ave.
> > Chief Scientist First Floor
> > dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936
> > jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050
> > http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000
> > http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Krishna Sai [mailto:sipfinity@usa.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:07 PM
> > > To: Jonathan Rosenberg; Takumi Ohba;
> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu
> > > Subject: Re: [RE: [Sip-implementors] billing information]
> > >
> > >
> > > I think the DCS architecture defines a billing ID, other than
> > > the sip Call ID
> > > for correlating billing records.
> > >
> > > -- Krishna Sai
> > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Takumi Ohba [mailto:ohba.takumi@lab.ntt.co.jp]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:44 AM
> > > > > To: sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu
> > > > > Subject: [Sip-implementors] billing information
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > How can SIP carry billing information, such as
> > > > > origination/destination area
> > > > > information, origination/transit/destination network provider
> > > > > identification, or charging rate?
> > > >
> > > > In networks, you bill for services. Thus, you need to be
> > > able to obtain
> > > > information from your systems (gateways and proxies) on
> the services
> > > > provided. For VoIP gateway services, the aspects of the
> > > service provided
> > > > include dialed number, calling party number, minutes for
> > > the call, packets
> > > > sent, etc. All of this information is known to the
> > > gateways. Some of it,
> > > > such as the caller and callee identity, are carried in the
> > > SIP messages.
> > > > Call duration is determined by the gateway. Information
> > > such as "charging
> > > > rate" is not part of the service provided. This information
> > > is known to the
> > > > provider, and would be used to generate the final bill,
> > > based on the call
> > > > detail information.
> > > >
> > > > As a result, there are no extra headers or fields defined
> > > to carry billing
> > > > information for SIP. Headers have been defined to carry
> > > authorization
> > > tokens
> > > > for calls. See:
> > > >
> > > >
> >
http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-johnston-sip-osp-token-01.txt
> >
> > but that is not billing information.
> >
> > -Jonathan R.
> > ---
> > Jonathan D. Rosenberg 72 Eagle Rock Ave.
> > Chief Scientist First Floor
> > dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936
> > jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050
> > http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000
> > http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip-implementors mailing list
> > Sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu
> > http://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>
>
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