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List: sandesha-dev
Subject: Re: TerminateSequence for Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.
From: "Jaliya Ekanayake" <jaliya () opensource ! lk>
Date: 2005-09-27 18:21:43
Message-ID: 00c901c5c390$5032ca60$6501a8c0 () ads ! iu ! edu
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Hi Mahamane,
I also have not seen a practical scenario as I have mentioned earlier. However IMHO, \
why WS-Addressing introduce wsa:From and wsa:ReplyTo is to support the above kind of \
scenarios.
As per the WS-ReliableMessaging specification the use of was:ReplyTo adders to send \
the TerminateSequence is correct and we have some ambiguity in the interpretation \
since the specification does not specify this scenario specifically.
Thanks,
Jaliya
----- Original Message -----
From: Mahamane Kanoute
To: Jaliya Ekanayake
Cc: sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: TerminateSequence for Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.
Hi Jaliya,
A comment about the ReplyTo being an other service:
- If the web service operation is two-ways, as far as I understand it, the ReplyTo \
EPR is not likely to refer to a third party (I'm not aware of a SOAP framework that \
can handle /wsdl:operation/wsdl:output messages independently of the \
/wsdl:operation/wsdl:input messages, i.e. than listens for WSDL response messages for \
WSDL request messages it did not send. Of course, such framework could be developed, \
but would IMHO be cumbersome).
- If the web-service operation is one-way, there is no issue because there is no \
ReplyTo and no inbound sequence: the requests and their **logical** responses both \
use outbound sequences
Thanks,
Mahamane
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jaliya Ekanayake [mailto:jaliya@opensource.lk]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:33 AM
To: Mahamane Kanoute
Cc: sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: TerminateSequence for Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.
Hi Mahamane,
I would like to add some explanation regarding the terminate sequence message.
Consider the following scenario:
Say;
Client C,
Service S
RMSource RMS
RMDestination RMD
C initiates a web service request for which the response is expected to be sent to \
a third party known as X
Now for the request message from C, RMS will expect RMD to send any \
acknowledgements and faults relating to create sequence and request messages to \
"AcksTo" URI.
However the Response from S should now go to X and it is the "ReplyTo" address that \
C has sent in the request message.
For S, the use of AcksTo is irrelevant for the response sequence since it is a \
different endpoint (may be in some other service) and have to use "ReplyTo" URI to \
get the create sequence and also to inform the ending of sequence using the Terminate \
Sequence.
So, MHO is that using ReplyTo to send the TerminateSequence is correct.
Thanks,
Jaliya
----- Original Message -----
From: Mahamane Kanoute
Cc: sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: TerminateSequence for Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.
Hi Chamikara,
Thanks for the answer. The ambiguity is that the specs don't specify (as far as I \
remember) at which enpoint point reference (EPR) the TerminateSequence message for \
the Inbound Sequence has to be sent. Did I miss this point? If I recall properly, IBM \
ETTK sends the TerminateSequence message for the Inbound Sequence to the wsrm:AcksTo \
EPR. However, as you pointed out, it cannot be said the Sandesha is wrong since the \
exact behavior is not defined.
Regards,
Mahamane
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chamikara Jayalath [mailto:chamikaramj@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:24 PM
To: Mahamane Kanoute
Cc: sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: TerminateSequence for Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.
Hi Mahamane,
Normally AcksTo URL is used to send acknowledgements and faults related to a \
sequence. Others are sent to the ReplyTo URL.
From the spec.........
/wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:AcksTo
This required element, of type wsa:EndpointReferenceType as specified by \
WS-Addressing [WS-ADDR] specifies the endpoint reference to which \
<SequenceAcknowledgement> messages and faults related to the created Sequence are to \
be sent.
Chamikara
On 9/22/05, Mahamane Kanoute <mkanoute@actional.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm witnessing a Sandesha behavior that I didn't expect. I'm using Sandesha for \
the RM Source and Destination and I have a proxy in between. I have a RM Source that \
offers an inbound sequence while creating the outbound sequence. After the last \
message, the RM source terminates the sequence, as expected. However, what I didn't \
expect, is that the RM Destination sends a Terminate sequence for the inbound \
sequence at the reply URL of the Source last message (i.e. the message preceding the \
outbound TerminateSequence message).
I was expecting the TerminateSequence message for the inbound sequence to be \
sent at the outbound sequence AcksTo EPR.
Thanks,
- Mahamane
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Mahamane,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also have not seen a practical scenario as I have
mentioned earlier. However IMHO, why WS-Addressing
introduce wsa:From and wsa:ReplyTo is to support the above kind of
scenarios.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As per the WS-ReliableMessaging specification the
use of was:ReplyTo adders to send the TerminateSequence is correct and we
have some ambiguity in the interpretation since the specification does not
specify this scenario specifically.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jaliya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 \
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mkanoute@actional.com href="mailto:mkanoute@actional.com">Mahamane
Kanoute</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jaliya@opensource.lk
href="mailto:jaliya@opensource.lk">Jaliya Ekanayake</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org
href="mailto:sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org">sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 26, 2005 9:52
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: TerminateSequence for
Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Jaliya,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>A comment about the ReplyTo being an other
service:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>- If the web service operation is two-ways, as far as I
understand it, the ReplyTo EPR is not likely to refer to a third
party (I'm not aware of a SOAP framework that can handle
/wsdl:operation/wsdl:output messages independently of the
/wsdl:operation/wsdl:input messages, i.e. than listens for WSDL response
messages for WSDL request messages it did not send. Of course, such framework
could be developed, but would IMHO be cumbersome).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>- If the web-service operation is one-way, there is no
issue because there is no ReplyTo and no inbound sequence: the requests and
their **logical** responses both use outbound sequences</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=355324313-26092005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Mahamane</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Jaliya Ekanayake
[mailto:jaliya@opensource.lk] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 22, 2005
10:33 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Mahamane Kanoute<BR><B>Cc:</B>
sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: TerminateSequence for
Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Mahamane,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would like to add some explanation regarding
the terminate sequence message.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Consider the following scenario:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Say;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Client C,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Service S</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>RMSource RMS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>RMDestination RMD</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>C initiates a web service request for which
the response is expected to be sent to a third party known as X</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now for the request message from C, RMS will
expect RMD to send any acknowledgements and faults relating to create sequence
and request messages to "AcksTo" URI.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>However the Response from S should now go to X
and it is the "ReplyTo" address that C has sent in the request
message.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For S, the use of AcksTo is irrelevant for the
response sequence since it is a different endpoint (may be in some other
service) and have to use "ReplyTo" URI to get the create sequence and also to
inform the ending of sequence using the Terminate Sequence.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So, MHO is that using ReplyTo to send the
TerminateSequence is correct.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jaliya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: \
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original \
Message ----- </DIV> <DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mkanoute@actional.com href="mailto:mkanoute@actional.com">Mahamane
Kanoute</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org
href="mailto:sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org">sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:39
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: TerminateSequence for
Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=889202113-22092005>Hi Chamikara,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=889202113-22092005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=889202113-22092005>Thanks for the answer. The ambiguity is that the
specs don't specify (as far as I remember) at which enpoint point reference
(EPR) the TerminateSequence message for the Inbound Sequence has to be
sent. Did I miss this point? If I recall properly, IBM ETTK sends the
TerminateSequence message for the Inbound Sequence to the wsrm:AcksTo
EPR. However, as you pointed out, it cannot be said the Sandesha is wrong
since the exact behavior is not defined.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=889202113-22092005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=889202113-22092005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=+0><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>M<SPAN
class=889202113-22092005>ahamane</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Chamikara Jayalath
[mailto:chamikaramj@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 21,
2005 10:24 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Mahamane Kanoute<BR><B>Cc:</B>
sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: TerminateSequence for
Inbound sequence sent at an unexpected EPR.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Mahamane,<BR><BR>Normally AcksTo URL is used to send
acknowledgements and faults related to a sequence. Others are sent to the
ReplyTo URL.<BR><BR><SPAN class=gmail_quote>From the
spec.........<BR><BR>/wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:AcksTo <BR><BR>This required
element, of type wsa:EndpointReferenceType as specified by WS-Addressing
[WS-ADDR] specifies the endpoint reference to which
<SequenceAcknowledgement> messages and faults related to the created
Sequence are to be sent.<BR></SPAN><BR><BR><BR>Chamikara<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 9/22/05, <B class=gmail_sendername>Mahamane
Kanoute</B> <<A
href="mailto:mkanoute@actional.com">mkanoute@actional.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: \
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial \
size=2>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial \
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm witnessing a Sandesha behavior that
I didn't expect. I'm using Sandesha for the RM Source and Destination and
I have a proxy in between.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have a RM Source that offers an
inbound sequence while creating the outbound sequence. After the last
message, the RM source terminates the sequence, as expected. However, what
I didn't expect, is that the RM Destination sends a Terminate sequence for
the inbound sequence at the reply URL of the Source last message
(i.e. the message preceding the outbound TerminateSequence
message).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial size=2>I was expecting the TerminateSequence
message for the inbound sequence to be sent at the outbound sequence
AcksTo EPR.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
class=sg>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial size=2>-
Mahamane</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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