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List:       ruby-talk
Subject:    Re: Newbie needs help
From:       Aldric Giacomoni <aldric () trevoke ! net>
Date:       2010-02-16 16:18:48
Message-ID: 34805e2a888e979354d2f69848917330 () ruby-forum ! com
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Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
> Gui Djos wrote:
> [...]
>>  I should point out, mr. Koser, that your attitude does nothing but 
>> discourage new programmers from learning Ruby. In that sense, as highly 
>> as you may think of yourself, you act as a negative force in the 
>> community. You pull it backwards, which, if my impressions on Ruby's 
>> philosophy are correct, is, to say the least, "very crappy". 
> 
> I gave you help and encouragement to use the Ruby language better.  I 
> don't know why you're responding this way.

Because people hate being told they are morons! :-)

> 
>> With all 
>> your experience in this specific language, sir, you do not seem like a 
>> "Happy Programmer", and I don't think mr. "Matz" would approve your 
>> behavior towards newcomers to the creative world of Ruby.
> 
> Matz is active on this list, and I'm sure he has read my posts.  If he 
> doesn't like them, I hope he'll tell me.

With all due respect to both Matz and you, I believe he has more 
important things to do than police/moderate this forum/mailing list. Gui 
is right, and your tone in your original response was very harsh and 
condescending. I do believe it was not meant to be, but that is how it 
came across.

> 
>> 
>>  I would never bash you for your terrible web designining skills 
> 
> You just did, by saying that.  Don't be disingenuous.
No, he just made an example. He was not actually commenting your 
web-design skills.

> 
>> if you 
>> asked me for help on a web design forum, even knowing you seem to rely 
>> on them for professional means.
> 
> I'm primarily a developer, not a designer.  If I asked you for design 
> help, I would expect you to tell me everything you didn't like about my 
> designs, and what you would do instead -- in other words, I would expect 
> you to do exactly what I did.

Marnen: I, like you, enjoy the raw, unadorned truth - especially when I 
am plain "doing it wrong", the wrong way, with the wrong thought 
process. Not many people share this point of view, however, and prefer a 
gentle guiding to the right track. In fact, they are usually very happy 
to jump right in line. The basic process is : compliment, correct, 
compliment.

> 
>> 
>>  You did give me some advice on healthy Ruby coding, but I'll show you 
>> how to teach the same stuff with a better attitude (I've done it with 
>> other areas, including programming, in which I actually have valuable 
>> knowledge):
>> 
>>  - try to avoid methodName; use method_name instead
>>  - there's no need to initialize x_1, x_2 or delta, since they receive 
>> values before being read
>>  - BigDecimal tends to be a better choice when doing calculations, 
>> rather than Float. Plus, if you think about it, you didnt need Float() 
>> for the above statements ;)
>>  - dont return multiple values from a method. Its better to do it the 
>> old way (using arrays or hashes) [just fyi, I had read otherwhise in 
>> more than one place]
>>  - avoid using capitalized names, unless youre defining constants
> 
> This is exactly what I said.

Yes... But Gui's words sound like advice - yours sound like bashing 
someone in the head! ;-)
> 
> 
> [...]
>>  It's not like you ran the code anyways. I thought the error was 
>> obvious: the radices found are incorrect (they're not radices to the 
>> function). 

Wait.. Mathematics? Why would I worry about that? I have _computers_ who 
give me the _right_ answer! :p Gui, what's obvious for one person isn't 
obvious for someone else.. :)

> 
> Tip for the future: if you post here (or in any similar forum) and just 
> say "it doesn't work", people are not going to be particularly willing 
> to help you.  If you get an error, always describe it.

At this point, it's customary to link to ESR's "how to ask smart 
questions", isn't it? :)


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