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List:       rfci-discuss
Subject:    Re: [RFCI-Discuss] all .de in whois.rfc-ignorant.org
From:       "Derek J. Balling" <dredd () megacity ! org>
Date:       2005-09-06 23:33:17
Message-ID: 50DE6DFB-C6C7-485B-AE31-13F6B346F402 () megacity ! org
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On Sep 6, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Daniel Vollbrecht wrote:
> OK, I did not express it exactly. Spam prevention is not your  
> primary purpose,
> but probably the most important purpose for everybody else when  
> using RFC
> Ignorant.

Misuse of our list is not our concern.

> If you would have too much time, you could make up a new black list  
> for
> listing such software. You even could list Fedora and Debian in  
> general in
> that imaginary black list because they ship with such "broken"  
> software. ;-]

Why do I care about them? People ship broken software all the time,  
look at Microsoft. :-)

> Indeed, you really have too much time.

If only that were the case.

>> 'ipwhois', we will hand off the 'whois' zone data to anyone who wants
>> it and end the 'whois' zone entirely, but adding *.de to our own
>> personal blocklist on any servers I maintain.
>
> Nice example of your ideological point of view.

Why is that? Because I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is  
and say "Hey, the .DE registry doesn't work and play well with others  
and I don't want to hear from any companies that use their services?"

> But reality is: People add score DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS 0 to their  
> SpamAssassin
> config and that's it. That's the opinion on our SAGE mailing list.

But reality is: SAGE people really really need to read how SA works.  
DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS *specifically* looks to see what the return code  
is (e.g., is it a domain-specific return code, or is it a ccTLD/gTLD- 
wide return code) and if it's the latter, *SA ignores it*!

(Aside - is this on sage-members? I saw way too much traffic in that  
spam-fighting thread so I haven't been paying attention to it, maybe  
I should. *grin*)

> In my attitude, the originary idea of the RFC Ignorant projekt is  
> laudable.
> But if nobody (at least no serious provider) can use it anymore  
> because of
> such ideological and highly unrealistical aspects (that point is  
> reached when
> top level domains are listed)

.. and those people are probably using SpamAssassin for those  
purposes, and are as a result already ignoring TLD-level listings. Or  
if they're not, they certainly have the ability to limit themselves  
to domain-specific listings based on the returned result.

> , you cannot achieve an improvement in people's
> respect towards the RFCs.

I would disagree. For every person who sends us a "fuck you, who do  
you think you are?" e-mail about their listings, I would say there's  
about 5-6 who are like "Wow, I didn't realize that (this was a bad  
thing, that our config was broken, that that contact info hadn't been  
updated since the Reagan administration)! Thanks for helping bring it  
to our attention!"

You only see the "complainers" because they are louder and more public.

> Otherwise important organizations like DENIC would
> stay in contact with you.

We had constant contact with *all* of the RIRs during the ipwhois  
days. Hell, RIPE folks even wrote some code for me that I didn't have  
time to write myself (although I still haven't deployed it). We've  
had wonderful contact with lots of ccTLD registries, convincing many  
of them to make live their WHOIS servers as well. DENIC are just  
digging and refusing to see the error of their ways, and it's their  
right to behave however they see fit. It's our right as the 'Net to  
say "Hey, that doesn't follow our agreed-to standards" and limit our  
communication with them. It's a free-market economy of sorts, and if  
enough people believe as we do, DENIC will figure it out and play nice.

Or, as it appears may happen, they're whip their dick out on the  
table, demand a ruler, and insist on changing the rules of the game.

D


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