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List:       qubes-devel
Subject:    [qubes-devel] Re: Preferred framework for graphical stuff?
From:       Jean-Philippe Ouellet <jpo () vt ! edu>
Date:       2017-04-02 18:39:28
Message-ID: CABQWM_Dk8k1M+SYYq-zkmFO6r=bxaGPJF272Gis-o6a5pYcZyg () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
<marmarek@invisiblethingslab.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:57:25PM -0500, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:14 PM, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
> > <marmarek@invisiblethingslab.com> wrote:
> > > Generally yes, especially the part about choosing GTK ;)
> > 
> > Noted.
> > 
> > > Since then we've moved to default Xfce, and GTK will be more consistent here.
> > 
> > Are you saying that Xfce as default is the long term plan now?
> > 
> > Or saying that there will be more consistency between {GTK in Xfce vs.
> > GTK in Gnome} than {Qt in Xfce vs. Qt in Gnome}?
> > 
> > I don't understand.
> 
> Both Gnome and Xfce use GTK widgets, so GUI parts done in GTK (vs Qt)
> are more consistent with the rest of desktop environment.

[1] has made me give some more thought to this. Yes, GTK is the
natural choice for things wishing to be first-class citizens in Gnome,
but this may not be the strongest consideration long-term.

Moving to Gnome has stagnated, and is a very low priority [2].

With the planned disaggregation of the GUI into its own domain [3],
iteration in the desktop experience of Qubes becomes much easier, and
I think it's quite reasonable to consider that Gnome may not be the
only final target.

I think it is also worthwhile to consider the difference in experience
between Qt in primarily-not-Qt environments, vs. GTK in
primarily-not-GTK environments. On other non-linux platforms, Qt is
much better integrated into the native desktop UX than GTK. This is at
least true on Windows and OS X, and even Genode has native support for
Qt which continues to improve. This may may sound irrelevant now, but
I think is less so post-GuiVM.

FWIW it seems that peoples' complaints about the current Qt
qubes-manager in Xfce have nothing to do with it being Qt instead of
GTK.

I'd also like to bring attention to some relevant 3rd party
discussions on this: [4]

I believe that limiting the inputs to this decision to "Gnome means
GTK, we plan to eventually target Gnome, therefore let's use GTK" may
be short-sighted.

Thoughts?

[1]: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-devel/jDHiZ9nhzIc/5DIRzcOUCwAJ
[2]: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1806#issuecomment-280281571
[3]: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/833
[4]: https://askubuntu.com/questions/281092/why-is-canonical-choosing-qt-over-gtk-for-unitys-next-generation


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