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List:       qubes-devel
Subject:    Re: [qubes-devel] Deterministic builds for Qubes OS -- the shortcut?
From:       Eric Shelton <eshelton () pobox ! com>
Date:       2015-12-24 0:54:37
Message-ID: CAPQw5rmbQC-=8kSoyrTBSmWyRY08KPEh-10B12TYEhcbq8ZFnQ () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Wojtek Porczyk
<woju@invisiblethingslab.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 07:54:17PM +0100, HW42 wrote:
> > Eric Shelton:
> > > Given the discussion of piggybacking off of Debian's efforts at
> > > implementing reproducible builds (however soon they may be available for
> > > use in the Qubes build process), does that mean there is a plan to
> > > transition away from Fedora to Debian as the base on which Qubes is built?
> > > I have no complaints with going in that direction (Fedora's release cycles
> > > seem to introduce unnecessary friction) - just interested where things are
> > > headed.
> 
> On the summit we received much help from Debian community, and it was
> that kind of help which is really helpful, because it was mostly
> unrelated to distribution, but more about specific tools like compilers.
> The is in constrast to Fedora community, which was nearly absent from
> the summit and it is my feeling that they don't treat the subject
> seriously enough.
> 
> About transition, there is no decision. I can only say we are quite
> annoyed with Fedora lately because of several reasons, so we consider
> our options. Our current state of internal, face to face discussion
> boils to those points:
> 
> - We will always have Fedora template as one of options, we basically
> don't care much about what goes there and we welcome all distros and
> OSes, including BSD and Windows.
> - It would be much effort to transition dom0 from Fedora to Debian. It
> already is hard to upgrade Fedora from 20 to 23 (mainly because we
> would have to rewrite WM plugins, which draw those colourful titlebars).
> - There will be also much effort to make GUI domain, which most probably
> will be based on Fedora (and not Debian) because of drivers. [1]
> - Once we move the graphics subsystem out of dom0, the amount of work to
> change distro in dom0 will be probably much smaller.
> - We wouldn't like to do 2x big effort, only 1x big and 1x small, but:
> - Fedora 20 is already old and unsupported anyway and each year it
> becomes more obsolete anyway, so something has to be done anyway.
> - We see several distros which can be considered, but I can't say which
> and why.
> - There are other efforts which are already more pressing. I for one
> would like to finish core3, which hopefuly will be merged in
> January/February.
> 
> I'm afraid that's all I can send unencrypted. :) I'd obviously welcome
> any comments, but primarily we are thankful for patches, particulary
> your work around GUI passthrough.
> 
> 
> [1] C. f. sys-net, which will *probably* (don't quote me on that) by
> default remain as Fedora, however we know that many people successfuly
> run it as Debian.
> 
> ...
> 
> --
> Merry Christmas,                _.-._
> Wojtek Porczyk               .-^'   '^-.
> Invisible Things Lab         |'-.-^-.-'|
> > > > > 
> I do not fear computers,    |  '-.-'  |
> I fear lack of them.        '-._ :  ,-'
> -- Isaac Asimov             `^-^-_>

Thank you for taking the time to write this up.  I appreciate hearing
about some of the ideas being kicked around internally by the team,
and to have a sense of where things may be headed, even if you are not
free to discuss everything.

Merry Christmas to you too,
Eric

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