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List:       quanta
Subject:    Re: [Quanta] Autofill title, h1, and filename?
From:       Eric Laffoon <sequitur () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-12-19 22:38:28
Message-ID: 200512191438.28519.sequitur () kde ! org
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On Sunday 18 December 2005 4:03 pm, Eyolf Ostrem wrote:
> On Fri 16 December 2005 20:07, Eric Laffoon wrote:
> > Hey Andras,
> > I'm answering a Dreamweaver question... and I'm being nice. ;-)
>
> I understand that I stepped in the poo... Sorry bout that - I should have
> realized that DW is an F word. At least I didn't mention the REAL wysiwyg F
> word editor...
>
> > And for our next trick... all those cool things we do you didn't know
> > about...
>
> That's really my one real gripe with Quanta (apart from frequent crashes,
> which makes the wysiwyg part worthless for me - whenever I try it, I crash
> immediately) but I realize that Quanta may not be to blame for many of
> them, but a buggy version of Qt or KDE):

We don't do WYSIWYG. It's truly fictitious in HTML and besides it's a pain in 
the ass to type. We call it VPL (Visual Page Layout) which is a more honest 
term. Anything less than version 3.4 or 3.5 will not be so good and you 
really should have the same version KDE as Quanta for the KHTML part. It 
should not be crashing, but if you're running KDE/Quanta 3.3 or especially 
3.2 then you should expect crashes.

> Documentation. The help file is 
> ok, I suppose, but hardly more. None of the ten ways to solve my problem I
> could have listed out from the documentation (I think).
Referencing them by number...
#1 PHP you just learn about when you learn about PHP. ;-)
#2 Templates - in the docs. Look again
#3 TemplateMagic - look in the script tree and it's documented
#4 in the docs
#5 in the docs
#6 possibly no mention in the docs, but if you ever opened a Kommander dialog 
for edit or looked at one this would be obvious. Putting 2 and 2 together, 
they're editable and the Quick start is one.
#7 It's in the docs, however you have to have it loaded in Quanta to expose 
the KFR docs on the help menu.
#8 It's in the docs. See Event Actions in Advanced features.
#9 See #8. You would need to know you can write scripts in *nix, which is kind 
of a given to us geeks. ;-)
#10 you would need to know about scripts and cron, but for the unique option 
simply open a shell and type "quanta --help" without the quotes of course and 
note that it explains how to use it.

In simple terms, it's easy to lament what isn't in the docs, and then when the 
entire *nix knowledge base gets in there it will be easy to lament that it's 
too long to read to find anything of use. ;-) If you want to know the 
community you live in you get in your car and drive around and see what's 
there. If you want to know a piece of software you poke around the interface 
and see what it has and what it does. Then you will come up with questions 
that need answers. I can tell who is naturally curious and who isn't.

Suppose you were going to do woodworking or compost music. I could instruct 
you in these things too, but for the instruction to be effective you'd have 
to have experience to related and develop more advanced technique. There's a 
trade off. One thing is for sure. A rich and powerful tool will take some 
time to master. Try to enjoy the process. ;-)
> Also, why isn't 
> there a standard forum where one can search for previously reported
> problems and solutions, without having to wade through the archive of this
> mailing list...?

Do you have any idea what supporting and developing the project entails? In 
fact because of exactly the problems you point out we are working on a 
service based offering for a small monthly subscription fee. The idea is that 
it will help to fund the project, as well as funding a richer user resource 
and interaction. There are real financial costs involved here. That's why 
we're doing a fund raiser right now. However if we provide something of value 
for users like you at a cost that is as disposable as a cheap magazine and we 
get a reasonable subscriber base then everybody wins.
1) You get a greatly enhanced interactive resource.
2) We get a lot more development funds due to the economy of scale of our user 
base.
3) We are able to enhance our offering to a truly valuable one to attract more 
users. Maybe we even end up having subscribers who don't use Quanta. ;-)

> I've also tried to find out how to install plugins - heck, 
> how to FIND the plugins...

They are in your KDE libs directory. They are standard KParts, and most are 
installed already. I believe this is in the docs in the advanced area too.
>
> > > (I never found a way to do it in Dreamweaver - this was my only
> > > frustration with what otherwise is the best html editor, imho)
> >
> > Ha! A comparison to Dreamweaver and then ask us to do what it didn't?
> > Relinquish that "best HTML editor" title and give Quanta "best web
> > development tool".
>
> Hm. Ok, I'll give it a chance :-) My main reasons to dub DW the best are
> (1) the superb handling of HTML/CSS integration,
We have that. There's auto completion for styles and classes, a button in tag 
dialogs and in the attribute inspector. You can also edit css text files in 
the CSS dialogs.
> (2) the sitewide 
> search/replace functionality,
Hey, KFileReplace. Sorry but while I don't use DW I can't imagine it has an 
advantage over a multi-line, multi target search and replace with backups and 
all the features it has.
> and (3) the (almost) trouble-free 
> source/wysiwyg editing.
How many more years and programmers and dollars to do it? Ours renders better 
and by version 4 I expect we'll have had no more than half as many years and 
ours will also do XSLT on the fly. They don't even do XML.
> (1) Why isn't there a docked panel with the 
> relevant CSS for a selected item - and ALL the relevant CSS codes, not only
> the inline ones? True, I can bring up the CSS editor from the external CSS
> file, but that's much more cumbersome.
Why don't you donate to the project? This is an annoyance that Andras is 
working on fixing in SVN right now. CSS should be project global and it will 
be soon, but it works locally on the page. As far as all the docked panels 
eating space... you forgot which tool you're using. We don't erupt our 
interfaces into piles of non standard docking toolboxes that eat screen 
space. It's cute, but we have to get work done with our tool.

> (2) The way one can nest search criteria, add more, remove some, and
> without knowing all the relevant regexes by heart (but use them if one
> knows them) - I've never had a problem with that function in DW, and it has
> saved me hours of work ( have a 1000+ pages site). If Quanta has the same
> functionality, I haven't found it yet.

KFileReplace and Regexp Explorer. Maybe you should look and find them before 
you go on waxing eloquent about what nobody else is all that impressed with. 
Then after you use them for a while, if you still feel something is missing 
let us know precisely what.

> (3) I never work only in wysiwyg, but my site is mainly plain text, and
> then it is much quicker,e.g., to press enter at the end of a paragraph, and
> see the closing </p> and the next <p> there automatically. In Quanta, all I
> get is a <br />, no matter what I press. (Then again, I haven't dared to
> try out the VPL much, since it always crashes, so maybe it's better than I
> think). These are the big issues, then there are the smaller ones, which
> may be issues only because I know DW better than Quanta. I'll give you the
> benefit of doubt. :-)

Look in the configuration interface... Settings-Configure Editor, then look at 
"Shortcuts".
>
> Anyway - I probably stepped in the poo again... I hope to get more
> acquainted with Quanta too.
Yes. Believe me when I tell you that if you search for Dreamwaver in our 
archives in the right month you'll find threads where former DW users were 
saying that after getting used to Quanta as a tool there is no way they would 
go back and DW wasn't even close. All your complaints fail the legitimate 
test of taking the requisite time to adequately familiarize yourself with the 
interface. If you picked up a CAD program or a file or graphics editing 
program the same would apply. It's not like switching from notepad to some 
other podunk text editor.

> Sadly, I had to take down my site yesterday, 
> owing to the hostile attitude of the American Music Publishers' Association
> against guitar sites, so I probably won't do much on it in the near future.
> But I'll check out your ten different ways.
>
> Eyolf
> ex. www.dylanchords.com

Sorry to hear about that. I also have been a guitar player for the last 30+ 
years.
-- 
Eric Laffoon - Quanta+ Team Leader 
http://quanta.kdewebdev.org

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