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List: qgis-developer
Subject: Re: [QGIS-Developer] Vote for Lat Lon Tools Default Coordinate Order - YX or XY
From: Syd Visser <sydv () sjgeophysics ! com>
Date: 2020-11-23 20:10:44
Message-ID: 03d39f1d-b062-9e15-8785-8989db56289d () sjgeophysics ! com
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In the 1970 to early 1980 when I started working with computers almost
everything was N E and Lon Lat. Z was also positive down and azimuth
positive from North to East (good old right hand rule) since most of the
work was for drilling or mine workings this worked fine.
If you look back at grass3 or 4 it was mostly N E. But somewhere in the
1990 almost everything changed to E N and Lat Lon and Z up and by grass6
I think everything was converted. I am not sure why this happened or
what the reasoning was maybe because some GIS people started realizing
the earth was not flat. All of this was fine except that the Azimuth did
not change so the real problem now is that the azimuth is still positive
from North to East. So personally to get things right instead of left I
think the Azimuth should now change to being positive from East to North
or at least North to West. Good luck with that.
Syd
*Syd (Sipke) Visser, P.Geo.*
President, Snr. Geophysicist/Geologist
Tel: 1 (604) 582-1100
Cell: 1 (604) 813-1440
sydv@sjgeophysics.com
www.sjgeophysics.com <http://www.sjgeophysics.com>
<http://www.sjgeophysics.com>
On 2020-11-21 10:45 a.m., C Hamilton wrote:
> I appreciate everyone's ideas and opinions. I think that for now I
> will leave Lat Lon Tools as it currently operates, but I will look
> over the suggestions to see if I can make sure the options are as
> clear as possible.
>
> Thanks once again for your input.
>
> Calvin
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 3:52 AM Richard Duivenvoorde
> <rdmailings@duif.net <mailto:rdmailings@duif.net>> wrote:
>
> On 11/20/20 6:10 PM, C Hamilton wrote:
> > It was suggested to me that the default coordinate order in the
> Lat Lon Tools plugin for coordinate capture and zoom-to tools
> should be "longitude, latitude" or "X, Y". Originally, Lat Lon
> Tools was designed to work with on-line maps which are generally
> "latitude, longitude" order.
> >
> > You can always go into the plugin settings and specify which
> order you want and that order will be preserved everytime you
> launch QGIS. The default order is only applicable the first time
> you install "Lat Lon Tools" or if you do a reset to defaults in
> the Lat Lon Tools settings menu,
> >
> > Who prefers Lat Lon Tools to default to "longitude, latitude" or
> "X, Y" when the plugin is first installed or reset to default values?
> >
> > Who prefers Lat Lon Tools to default to "latitude, longitude
> (Google map order)" or "Y, X" when the plugin is first installed
> or reset to default values?
>
> I'm a little late on the table :-) As descision already cast:
> https://github.com/NationalSecurityAgency/qgis-latlontools-plugin/issues/53#issuecomment-731070055
> and fine with it, just want to add:
>
> I'm not a geo-guy by original trade and working with
> scientists/911 peeps at the moment, who favour the math-way of
> exchanching coordinates (2 dimensional values): X,Y.
>
> If I were 'boss geo', I'd never use lonlat or latlon terms, only
> use (decimal!) degrees or x,y :-)
> (people tend to mix lat lon up all the time, they never do with x,y).
>
> In my use-case, the Lat Lon Tools plugin is used in a very
> pluriform, international environment where coordinates from all
> kind of crs's are to be mixed/converted (often one pair at a
> time...). Why would you use YX in one crs and XY in other crs's?
> It's just not very efficient to have that choice. Just like
> meters/feet, point/comma delimeters in numbers etc etc. This
> screams for conversion issues ...
>
> Ah, and while on it, let's all speak Esparanto (and keep the
> number of QGIS translation builds low) ;-)
>
> Korajn salutojn,
>
> Richard Duivenvoorde
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> QGIS-Developer mailing list
> QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
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<p> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; line-height: 100%">
In the 1970 to early 1980 when I started working with computers
almost everything was N E and Lon Lat. Z was also positive down
and
azimuth positive from North to East (good old right hand rule)
since
most of the work was for drilling or mine workings this worked
fine.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; line-height: 100%">If you look back at
grass3 or 4 it was mostly N E. But somewhere in the 1990 almost
everything changed to E N and Lat Lon and Z up and by grass6 I
think
everything was converted. I am not sure why this happened or what
the
reasoning was maybe because some GIS people started realizing the
earth was not flat. All of this was fine except that the Azimuth
did
not change so the real problem now is that the azimuth is still
positive from North to East. So personally to get things right
instead of left I think the Azimuth should now change to being
positive from East to North or at least North to West. Good luck
with
that.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; line-height: 100%">Syd<br>
</p>
<p>
<style type="text/css">
p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }</style></p>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong>Syd (Sipke) Visser,
P.Geo.</strong><br>
<span style="font-size: small;">President, Snr.
Geophysicist/Geologist</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: small;">
<span style="font-size: small;">
</span></span>
<span style="font-size: small;">Tel: 1 (604) 582-1100<br>
<span style="font-size: small;">Cell: 1 (604) 813-1440<br>
<span style="font-size: small;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" \
href="mailto:sydv@sjgeophysics.com">sydv@sjgeophysics.com</a><br> <span \
style="font-size: small;"><a
href="http://www.sjgeophysics.com">www.sjgeophysics.com</a></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><a title="www.sjgeophysics.com"
href="http://www.sjgeophysics.com">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size:
small;">
<span style="font-size: small;">
<br>
</span></span></span></a></p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-11-21 10:45 a.m., C Hamilton
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABPxTTpChAv2jLO2GTbtu5LbS8exBc1+OSjXpR=nBm82dt=w_A@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">I appreciate everyone's ideas and opinions. I think
that for now I will leave Lat Lon Tools as it currently
operates, but I will look over the suggestions to see if I can
make sure the options are as clear as possible.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks once again for your input.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Calvin</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 3:52
AM Richard Duivenvoorde <<a
href="mailto:rdmailings@duif.net" \
moz-do-not-send="true">rdmailings@duif.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On
11/20/20 6:10 PM, C Hamilton wrote:<br>
> It was suggested to me that the default coordinate order
in the Lat Lon Tools plugin for coordinate capture and zoom-to
tools should be "longitude, latitude" or "X, Y". Originally,
Lat Lon Tools was designed to work with on-line maps which are
generally "latitude, longitude" order.<br>
> <br>
> You can always go into the plugin settings and specify
which order you want and that order will be preserved
everytime you launch QGIS. The default order is only
applicable the first time you install "Lat Lon Tools" or if
you do a reset to defaults in the Lat Lon Tools settings menu,<br>
> <br>
> Who prefers Lat Lon Tools to default to "longitude,
latitude" or "X, Y" when the plugin is first installed or
reset to default values?<br>
> <br>
> Who prefers Lat Lon Tools to default to "latitude,
longitude (Google map order)" or "Y, X" when the plugin is
first installed or reset to default values?<br>
<br>
I'm a little late on the table :-) As descision already cast:
<br>
<a
href="https://github.com/NationalSecurityAgency/qgis-latlontools-plugin/issues/53#issuecomment-731070055"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" \
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/NationalSecurityAgency/qgis-latlontools-plugin/issues/53#issuecomment-731070055</a><br>
and fine with it, just want to add:<br>
<br>
I'm not a geo-guy by original trade and working with
scientists/911 peeps at the moment, who favour the math-way of
exchanching coordinates (2 dimensional values): X,Y. <br>
<br>
If I were 'boss geo', I'd never use lonlat or latlon terms,
only use (decimal!) degrees or x,y :-) <br>
(people tend to mix lat lon up all the time, they never do
with x,y).<br>
<br>
In my use-case, the Lat Lon Tools plugin is used in a very
pluriform, international environment where coordinates from
all kind of crs's are to be mixed/converted (often one pair at
a time...). Why would you use YX in one crs and XY in other
crs's? It's just not very efficient to have that choice. Just
like meters/feet, point/comma delimeters in numbers etc etc.
This screams for conversion issues ...<br>
<br>
Ah, and while on it, let's all speak Esparanto (and keep the
number of QGIS translation builds low) ;-)<br>
<br>
Korajn salutojn,<br>
<br>
Richard Duivenvoorde<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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