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List:       pythonmac-sig
Subject:    Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] python + pygame on OSX
From:       Keith Nemitz <keithn () 2xtreme ! net>
Date:       2004-02-25 1:25:41
Message-ID: 86990800-6731-11D8-AC92-000393DB52E4 () 2xtreme ! net
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First I should apologize for having taken a tongue-in-cheek attitude. I 
didn't think the topic was very serious.

Bob, I want to thank you for your suggestions. They will help me 
isolate my current access bug.

I am aware of Apple guidelines. I worked there for four years in their 
development tools group. I'm not up-to-date on their OS X rules, but 
the don't write to the app rule existed for the original Mac OS, and 
for all the reason's mentioned here. However, there were well known 
exceptions to the rule. A couple dev tools (ResEdit, probably also 
Resourcerer) and several games broke it, however, which DTS 
surreptitiously approved.

In programming, like other crafts, one should master one's art within 
the rules, and only then might one be ready to break them.

Keith Nemitz


On Feb 24, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> Apple has guidelines for many reasons and they obviously put quite a 
> bit of thought and effort into making sure they are good for both 
> application developers and users of their operating systems.  This use 
> case is clearly covered with another approach.  If you feel that they 
> are wrong, you should file a bug and/or contact Developer Technical 
> Support.  You're obviously free to do it any way you want, but you 
> have been warned that what you're doing is a bad idea and we have 
> tried to point you in the recommended direction.
>
> -bob
>
> On Feb 24, 2004, at 6:46 PM, Keith Nemitz wrote:
>
>> Wow, is the 'one flavor suits all' concept still breathing? I would 
>> have thought that went out with Ronald Reagan and MS-DOS. I wrote 
>> 'would be' instead of 'should be' and 'allow' instead of 'require'.
>>
>> Some apps don't fit the 'place anywhere - run everywhere' model. In 
>> my case, the installer determines locality access and the app itself 
>> determines runtime access.
>>
>> As a user, I don't want certain apps to go running around dropping 
>> files all over my hard-drive, begging me to grant them su status 
>> during their install and having to clean up their mess in order to 
>> completely trash their app. Most users don't have a clue about their 
>> preferences/library folder, but many of them have run out of space on 
>> their hard drive.
>>
>> But now we're OT, and - crap MS-DOS IS still around...
>> Keith Nemitz
>>
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2004, at 1:52 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>>>
>>> Writing to the application is a bad idea, on Linux/Unix, OSX and 
>>> some flavors of Windows the application will only be writeable by 
>>> administrative accounts. Anyone that manages a sizeable amount of 
>>> desktops gets very nervous when ordinary users can modify 
>>> applications, even for single user desktops.
>>>
>>> Modifying the application also makes it harder to support multiple 
>>> users on a machine (shared preferences).
>>>
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2004, at 10:40 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's too bad :)  Apple says don't do it with good reason.  You can 
>>> run into various locking/permissions problems (i.e. if the app was 
>>> on a CD-ROM, on a Server, owned by another user, etc.) if you do, 
>>> and they offer perfectly good alternatives that are flexible for 
>>> almost any purpose and do not have such issues.  You shouldn't be 
>>> doing such things on any platform, especially not OS X.
>>>
>>> If you would like to modify your own app bundle, I strongly suggest 
>>> making a copy of the app and changing that.. as is common for 
>>> creating a self-contained presentation from a presentation-viewer, 
>>> or a self-extracting archive, etc.
>>>
>>> -bob
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pythonmac-SIG maillist  -  Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>


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