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List: python-distutils-sig
Subject: Re: [Distutils] Install a script to <prefix>/sbin instead of <prefix>/bin
From: Michael Jansen <info () michael-jansen ! biz>
Date: 2013-12-07 16:56:10
Message-ID: 1438578.gDLamZSRKg () gambit ! local ! michael-jansen ! biz
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On Saturday, December 07, 2013 03:15:15 PM Paul Moore wrote:
> On 7 December 2013 13:45, Michael Jansen <info@michael-jansen.biz> wrote:
> I can understand your situation, but please don't give up! The
> packaging community definitely needs people willing to help work on
> these issues. But it's much less about coding solutions, and more
> about negotiating compromises between people with very different
> viewpoints.
And thats where i disagree. I have some experience in open source contributions (KDE, cobbler
and my own).
1. Usable code always wins. Always. Ideas and Agreements solve nothing.
2. This is a already solved problem. Both autotools and even more so cmake make it possible to
develop cross platform. Why python should be differently is something i won't understand.
If you want to wait for a compromise and an agreement nothing will ever be implemented.
> To go back to your original issue (sbin vs bin) - from my point of
> view as a Windows developer, packages just export commands. Why would
> I choose to put them in the sbin list rather than the bin list? If
> that's not clear, then I'll possibly develop packages that don't work
> "right" on Unix. Let's thrash out the answer to that question first,
> and *then* worry about implementing it. Is the relevant point that
> "bin" is on PATH but sbin (typically) isn't? If both are on PATH, I
> don't see why you bother having two directories. So maybe the real
> idea here is to split entry points into "commands that should be on
> PATH" and "commands that should be provided, but not on PATH by
> default". Or is it? My understanding of sbin on Unix is that it's
> somehow "system utilities" - but that's just a classification with no
> practical impact. (What makes formatting a disk a "system utility"? I
> used to do it all the time when floppy disks were common.) Or maybe
> sbin is only on PATH when you're root. How does that translate to
> typical Windows systems, where there is usually only one user, and he
> has access to everything? Maybe in that context, sbin should be for
> utilities that require elevation? Lots of questions, but no obvious
> answers...
A windows developer should not care about the difference. Both end up in the same directory. A
unix developer will either not care too (and be reminded by the distro) or has read
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#SBINSYSTEMBINARIES
So the not caring unix/windows developer will one day get a bug report/patch from a unix user or
distro packager if some script belongs to sbin.
> As I said, and I'll say again, you don't *have* to answer these
> questions. But not doing so is not "I don't want to think about it,
> just solve POSIX". Rather it's "let's not make everything wait for a
> perfect solution when POSIX people need something now". But equally,
> let's not stop working on the cross-platform solution because the
> POSIX people have something and no longer care - that's *why* the
> problem never gets solved properly.
Thats why i prefer to improve step by step. The sbin/bin distinction can be solved in a platform
neutral way so why not do it.
> One other thing I should say here - you mention your project is
> "cobblerd". The "d" on the end makes me thing it's a daemon. That's
> inherently POSIX only - on Windows this would be a service (which is a
> whole other beast). Actually looking at Cobbler on PyPI it says
> "Cobbler is a Linux boot server..." so Windows compatibility really
> isn't crucial in this particular instance, I guess :-)
It most likely will never run on windows but i have seen weirder things (productive clearcase
running on windows xp *shudder*). But there is nothing that prevents it from ever running on
windows. So if i solved the multi distro support there is nothing that prevents someone to make it
running under windows. Why shouldn't you boot and provision your unix virtual machines with a
server running on windows? But i guess its unlikely.
And its not my project. I only contribute since about three weeks. My homepage says something
about "drive-by coding" and thats what i do. I like the project and noticed it currently only runs on
redhat and installed into /usr. There are people using it on sles (its a rather enterprisey thing)
which use patches.
So i solved all obstacles to get it running out of the box (with correct paths) on opensuse already
and thought i could do another attempt to get those improvements that make sense into
setuptools. But i think that won't happen.
And it was not you. I like to discuss and i always applaud people that help other brainstorm.
Anyway. I will solve my problems on top of setuptools for cobblerd only for now. Then i will think
about what to do with the results.
I need and partially have solution for:
- configure some files (patch @@var@@) (implemented)
- eg. patch VIRTUALENV into a apache config file for wsgi virtualenv support
- patch some distro / platform specific paths in config files.
- install scripts in locations != bin (sbin and some wsgi) (implemented)
- support for share/<package> (not yet)
- support for /etc (different for prefix=/usr|/usr/local) (not yet)
- support for /var (not yet)
- support for /srv/www (sometimes its /var/www (done)
Currently all those pathes are just done with data_files which makes multi distro support quite
complicated there.
Yes this is mostly linux distro stuff but some of it could be useful for windows too.
Mike
--
Michael Jansen
http://michael-jansen.biz
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content="1" /><style type="text/css"> p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
</style></head><body style=" font-family:'Monospace'; font-size:9pt; font-weight:400; \
font-style:normal;"> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">On \
Saturday, December 07, 2013 03:15:15 PM Paul Moore wrote:</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> On 7 December 2013 \
13:45, Michael Jansen <info@michael-jansen.biz> wrote:</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> I can understand your \
situation, but please don't give up! The</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> packaging community definitely needs people \
willing to help work on</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> these issues. But it's much less about coding solutions, and \
more</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> about \
negotiating compromises between people with very different</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> viewpoints.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">And thats where i disagree. I \
have some experience in open source contributions (KDE, cobbler and my own).</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">1. Usable code always wins. \
Always. Ideas and Agreements solve nothing.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">2. This is a already solved problem. Both \
autotools and even more so cmake make it possible to develop cross platform. Why \
python should be differently is something i won't understand.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">If you want to wait for a \
compromise and an agreement nothing will ever be implemented.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> To go back to your \
original issue (sbin vs bin) - from my point of</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> view as a Windows developer, packages just \
export commands. Why would</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> I choose to put them in the sbin list rather than the bin \
list? If</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> that's \
not clear, then I'll possibly develop packages that don't work</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> "right" on \
Unix. Let's thrash out the answer to that question first,</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> and *then* worry about \
implementing it. Is the relevant point that</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> "bin" is on PATH but sbin \
(typically) isn't? If both are on PATH, I</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> don't see why you bother having two \
directories. So maybe the real</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> idea here is to split entry points into "commands that \
should be on</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
PATH" and "commands that should be provided, but not on PATH by</p> <p \
style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> default". Or is it? \
My understanding of sbin on Unix is that it's</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> somehow "system utilities" - but \
that's just a classification with no</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> practical impact. (What makes formatting a \
disk a "system utility"? I</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> used to do it all the time when floppy disks \
were common.) Or maybe</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> sbin is only on PATH when you're root. How does that \
translate to</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
typical Windows systems, where there is usually only one user, and he</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> has access to \
everything? Maybe in that context, sbin should be for</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> utilities that require elevation? Lots of \
questions, but no obvious</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> answers...</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">A windows developer should not care about the \
difference. Both end up in the same directory. A unix developer will either not care \
too (and be reminded by the distro) or has read</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#SBINSYSTEMBINARIES</p>
<p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">So the not caring \
unix/windows developer will one day get a bug report/patch from a unix user or distro \
packager if some script belongs to sbin.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> As I said, and I'll say again, you don't \
*have* to answer these</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> questions. But not doing so is not "I don't want to \
think about it,</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> just \
solve POSIX". Rather it's "let's not make everything wait for a</p> <p \
style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> perfect solution when \
POSIX people need something now". But equally,</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> let's not stop working on the cross-platform \
solution because the</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> POSIX people have something and no longer care - that's *why* \
the</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
problem never gets solved properly.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Thats why i prefer to improve step by step. The \
sbin/bin distinction can be solved in a platform neutral way so why not do it.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> One other thing I should \
say here - you mention your project is</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> "cobblerd". The "d" on \
the end makes me thing it's a daemon. That's</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> inherently POSIX only - on Windows this \
would be a service (which is a</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">> whole other beast). Actually looking at Cobbler on PyPI it \
says</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> \
"Cobbler is a Linux boot server..." so Windows compatibility really</p> <p \
style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> isn't crucial in this \
particular instance, I guess :-)</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">It most likely will never run on windows but i \
have seen weirder things (productive clearcase running on windows xp *shudder*). But \
there is nothing that prevents it from ever running on windows. So if i solved the \
multi distro support there is nothing that prevents someone to make it running under \
windows. Why shouldn't you boot and provision your unix virtual machines with a \
server running on windows? But i guess its unlikely.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">And its not my project. I \
only contribute since about three weeks. My homepage says something about \
"drive-by coding" and thats what i do. I like the project and noticed it \
currently only runs on redhat and installed into /usr. There are people using it on \
sles (its a rather enterprisey thing) which use patches.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">So i solved all obstacles to \
get it running out of the box (with correct paths) on opensuse already and thought i \
could do another attempt to get those improvements that make sense into setuptools. \
But i think that won't happen.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">And it was not you. I like to discuss and i \
always applaud people that help other brainstorm.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Anyway. I will solve my \
problems on top of setuptools for cobblerd only for now. Then i will think about what \
to do with the results.</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">I need and partially have solution for:</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;"> - eg. patch VIRTUALENV \
into a apache config file for wsgi virtualenv support</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;"> - patch some distro / platform specific paths \
in config files.</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;"> - install \
scripts in locations != bin (sbin and some wsgi) (implemented)</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;"> - support for \
share/<package> (not yet)</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; \
margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;"> - support for /etc (different for prefix=/usr|/usr/local) (not \
yet)</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;"> - support \
for /var (not yet)</p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;"> - support \
for /srv/www (sometimes its /var/www (done)</p> <p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" margin-top:0px; \
margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; \
text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Currently all those pathes are just done with \
data_files which makes multi distro support quite complicated there.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Yes this is mostly linux \
distro stuff but some of it could be useful for windows too.</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Mike</p> <p \
style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; \
margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">-- </p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Michael Jansen</p> <p style=" \
margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; \
-qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; \
-qt-user-state:0;">http://michael-jansen.biz</p></body></html>
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