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List:       postgresql-general
Subject:    =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Re=3A_Seeking_the_correct_term_of_art_for_the_=28uni?= =?UTF-8?Q?que=29_role_that_is
From:       "David G. Johnston" <david.g.johnston () gmail ! com>
Date:       2022-10-28 2:47:17
Message-ID: CAKFQuwYr1zCkk8RRmi3V+wSZdhO1Sdd5dOAhAk7ri_w+GYHSBA () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 4:02 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:

> "David G. Johnston" <david.g.johnston@gmail.com> writes:
> > Yes, the description for --username probably should be modified to read:
>
> > "Selects the user name of the cluster's bootstrap superuser."
>
> Yeah, perhaps.  The term "bootstrap superuser" is reasonably well
> established by now --- I count half a dozen uses in our SGML docs
> and another dozen or so in the code --- and it's certainly more
> specific than "database superuser".  We should probably create
> a glossary entry for it and then change all the uses of "database
> superuser" as appropriate.
>

+1

>
> However ... it looks to me like some of those uses just mean to
> distinguish between Postgres-specific superuser-dom as opposed
> to whatever the term might mean out in the operating system.
> But I'm not sure that anybody really uses that term for an OS-level
> concept on any popular OS, so it feels a bit pedantic as well
> as confusing.  Should we leave those usages alone, or reduce them
> to just "superuser"?
>
>
Upon a third reflection I decided that leaving "database superuser" in
place is preferred; it is fairly pervasive in the code, docs, and
translations.  I would suggest documenting both "bootstrap superuser" and
"database superuser", making it clear that "database superuser" means any
role in the cluster that has the superuser attribute while "bootstrap
superuser" is specifically that superuser which was created by initdb and
thus owns all initialized objects including the catalogs in all databases
in the cluster.

I'm not sure what you are referring to with respect to OS-level references
but those ideally will not refer to superuser at all - reserving the
concept for the product.  admin/root/sudo or even just os-user suffice for
the few places where the two worlds intersect.

David J.

[Attachment #3 (text/html)]

<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span \
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 4:02 PM Tom \
Lane &lt;<a href="mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us">tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us</a>&gt; \
wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&quot;David G. Johnston&quot; &lt;<a \
href="mailto:david.g.johnston@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">david.g.johnston@gmail.com</a>&gt; writes:<br> &gt; Yes, the \
description for --username probably should be modified to read:<br> <br>
&gt; &quot;Selects the user name of the cluster&#39;s bootstrap superuser.&quot;<br>
<br>
Yeah, perhaps.   The term &quot;bootstrap superuser&quot; is reasonably well<br>
established by now --- I count half a dozen uses in our SGML docs<br>
and another dozen or so in the code --- and it&#39;s certainly more<br>
specific than &quot;database superuser&quot;.   We should probably create<br>
a glossary entry for it and then change all the uses of &quot;database<br>
superuser&quot; as appropriate.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">+1</div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br>
However ... it looks to me like some of those uses just mean to<br>
distinguish between Postgres-specific superuser-dom as opposed<br>
to whatever the term might mean out in the operating system.<br>
But I&#39;m not sure that anybody really uses that term for an OS-level<br>
concept on any popular OS, so it feels a bit pedantic as well<br>
as confusing.   Should we leave those usages alone, or reduce them<br>
to just &quot;superuser&quot;?<br><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Upon a third \
reflection I decided that leaving &quot;database superuser&quot; in place is \
preferred; it  is fairly pervasive in the code, docs, and translations.   I would \
suggest documenting both &quot;bootstrap superuser&quot; and &quot;database \
superuser&quot;, making it clear that &quot;database superuser&quot; means any role \
in the cluster that has the superuser attribute while &quot;bootstrap superuser&quot; \
is specifically that superuser which was created by initdb and thus owns all \
initialized objects including the catalogs in all databases in the cluster.</div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I&#39;m not sure \
what you are referring to with respect to OS-level references but those ideally will \
not refer to superuser at all - reserving the concept for the product.   \
admin/root/sudo or even just os-user suffice for the few places where the two worlds \
intersect.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">David J.</div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div></div>



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