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List:       php-general
Subject:    RE: [PHP3] Database Design
From:       Mark Johns <XMTJ () RIMS ! com>
Date:       1999-11-08 14:53:25
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I'll bite.

It's not just PHP. It's not just scripting for WWW. Woolly thinking abounds
when it comes to database and application _design_. I think a large portion
of programmers and developers out there code first, and ask questions later.
There is a great deal work being done in applications for the internet, by
people very new to programming in general. The disciplines developed and
acquired over many years of core business applications work, systems
analysis, and database design have not found their way into most internet
development.

There is a disconnect between the developers of the tools we use, like perl,
PHP, MySQL, etc., who have years of experience, discipline, and habits in
software design, and a lot of us users, creating our javascript menus, and
E-whatever solutions. I am speaking only for myself. I got into the internet
programming, web design, and scripting world only after years of business
application work, and systems administration. I learned to design databases
based on analysis of the business problem to be solved, and the application
of computer science princples, like database normalization, tried and true
algorithms, careful reasonableness testing, and a great deal of paranoia
regarding my own assumptions. 

I know that there are many fine, experienced programmers writing truely
correct applications for the internet. Most of them are using scripting
languages, even ASP, to create their apps. But the successful ones are using
the same software development methods that have served well from the days of
FORTRAN and COBOL. Languages and tools change, but the One True Path to
Correct Programs is the same.

Those of us who have the experience need to help the newcomers understand,
and learn as well.

That's my US$ 0.02

(NOTE: None of this is meant as a putdown to anyone. Nor is it a declaration
that I know best. I learned a long time ago that Ignorance is Curable.
Stupidity is Permanent. May we all seek to be cured of Ignorance.)

--
Mark T. Johns, webmaster
RIMS, http://www.rims.com/
xmtj@rims.com 
630 428 5389



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Dean, John [SMTP:DEANJX@mail.aramco.com.sa]
> Sent:	Monday, November 08, 1999 8:16 AM
> To:	php3@lists.php.net
> Subject:	[PHP3] Database Design
> 
> Hi Guys, 
> Recently I have taken a look at the DDL code used in many of the Data
> Table used as part of PHP applications. And the one thing that strikes me
> is that the writer has unnecessarily worked very hard on the scripts. What
> I mean is let the under lying RDBMS do the work. I lot of time and effort
> could be save if Data Tables were properly designed. In the DDL I have
> looked at nobody has 'normalized' the tables, there is no use of
> referential integrity, no check contraints, etc. Good design would save
> hours of PHP coding. What about it guys?
> 
> This message is meant to open up a debate. It not meant the negatively
> critises (flame) anybody, so please don't be offended.
> 
> Best Regards 
> John Dean 
> 
> In this world without borders or fences 
> Who needs Windows or Gates? 
> 

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