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List: owasp-dotnet
Subject: Re: RES: RES: [Owasp-dotnet] How to deny access to IIS Admin Objects?
From: Dinis Cruz <dinis () ddplus ! net>
Date: 2005-08-04 8:21:17
Message-ID: 42F1CFFD.7040302 () ddplus ! net
[Download RAW message or body]
[note: I BCCed this email to some of my current contacts at Microsoft
since I don't think that they have realized the scale of this problem
(when I had a meeting at Redmond last month I had to re-explain this to
them, which was quite surprising since I had sent them information about
this issue more than 18 month ago and SAM'SHE has a test for this for
more than 1 year now). Hopefully we will get an official answer from
them :) ]
Guilherme Magalhães wrote:
> Hello Diniz,
>
> Thank you very much for your comments, they're really clarifying.
> I hope your daughter is all right :)
She is fine thanks, it was quite scary, but I guess that part of the
'parenthood experience' :)
>
> What I'm doing it's pretty much what you described, running all
> sites on diferent app polls with different users. But until now, I
> can't enable Full Trust on production servers for obvious security
> reasons.
I take my hat off to you, you are doing more than 99% of the IIS/Asp.Net
people I meet. Your company is very lucky in having you on board (let me
know if you ever think about new projects :)
> I'm testing the metabase ACLs and it's working pretty well on single
> server configuration, but it needs mode QA testing to be deployed on
> the hosting cluster.
Contact the guys at Orcs web if you want to exchange some ideas (I CCed
them on this email and they can be contacted at webteam@orcsweb.com)
> And it's also good to remember that CLSID_MSAdminBase_W can be created
> using classic ASP, what lead me in the early stages of server security
> to use Metabase ACLs.
You're right.
Btw, when you have some spare cycles, why don't you write a test for
SAM'SHE for the CLSID_MSAdminBase_W? At the moment SAM'SHE supports both
Asp.Net and ASP Classic tests
> I believe that, maybe coupled with application level firewall (that
> denies process lauch) and some hacking on interop functions of the
> .NET framework we could safelly enable full trust. But hey, I not sure
> about that yet :)
I doubt that you could ever pull this off. I am doing some research for
my Owasp US conference presentation (in October) which should prove
beyond any doubts that protecting Full Trust Asp.Net is impossible.
My presentation title is "Rooting .Net (Building a CLR RootKit)" which
should give you an idea of what I am doing (drop me a line if you are
interested in participating in this research)
>
> I'm very concerd about IIS + ASP.net security too. Everywhere I
> look around seaching for papers or anything related to that, all I
> find is some great advice and warnings made by you but I don't see any
> concern on the majority of hosting providers.
Yes, and that is part of the reason why I stooped making noise about it.
Since nobody cares (including Microsoft), there is no point in making a
lot of noise and bringing this to the media (which would be so easy to
do (just expose a major ISP and their 'massively insecure Full Trust
Asp.Net environments') but would probably make people do very bad rushed
and panicky decisions).
So I am waiting patiently for the market to catch up and for all parties
involved (from Hosting providers, to companies who own massive Asp.Net
server farms, to Microsoft, to the government) to catch up and start the
dialog about how we are going to solve this mess. Note that you cannot
'patch' an application which was designed to be executed in Full Trust
Asp.Net!!
> I believe that what you said about Administrators and Developers are
> pretty much true, I'm almost horrified testing big host providers
> security.
Last time I look 99% of them where massively insecure and would not be
able to sustain an attacked launched from one of their shared hosting
account (and in some cases, even from their 'dedicated servers' accounts)
>
> I'll try to post the progress and other info about IIS + ASP.net
> security while I go on with my tests.
Please do, the more we know about this problem, the more able we will be
to defend against it.
> One of the companies that I work for are considering to build a brand
> new .NET 2.0 based control panel focused on security, web clustering
> administration and easy code level customization, as from I see we
> can't rely on what's avaliable on the market today.
That sounds good, and we should also try to build something similar for
Owasp DotNet security tools. Anybody interested?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Guilherme Magalhães
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *De:* Dinis Cruz [mailto:dinis@ddplus.net]
> *Enviada em:* terça-feira, 26 de julho de 2005 05:22
> *Para:* owasp-dotnet@lists.sourceforge.net
> *Cc:* Guilherme Magalhães
> *Assunto:* Re: RES: [Owasp-dotnet] How to deny access to IIS Admin
> Objects?
>
> Hello Guilherme
>
> First sorry for the delay in replying to your questions but I was in
> Seattle two weeks ago and when I came back I had a small emergency
> with my 4 months old daughter, which caused me to be in and out of
> hospital all of last week (all is fine now, it was just a big scare)
>
> Regarding your questions see my comments bellow.
>
> Guilherme Magalhães wrote:
>
>> I mean listing anonimous account details from each IIS website on a
>> Win2k3 machine used for shared hosting.
>
> Ok, so you are trying to protect a server which hosts multiple
> websites (with some or all running under Full Trust). I'm assuming
> that you have multiple application pools, with each application pool
> running under a different identity (because if they are not, there is
> nothing you can do to isolate them)
>
>>
>> Using the same code of SamShe
>> Metabase.AfterRevertToSelf.Read.Websites.AnonymousAccountDetails it's
>> possible on a default windows installation to read from the metabase
>> all hosted sites and passwords, and that's as the test says is critical.
>
> Yes, that is true. This is one of those cases where Asp.Net hosting
> introduces a vulnerability in IIS 6.0, and unfortunately goes
> un-noticed in most environments because asp.net developers don't
> understand the inner workings of IIS, and IIS administrators don't
> know what can be done in Asp.Net
>
> You can also use the 'Online Metabase Explorer' tool included with
> SAM'SHE to browse the Metabase and confirm that you can read all
> Anonymous account details. If you look at the code for that tool you
> will see that I am reusing the .NET assembly used in Microsoft's
> 'Metabase Explorer' tool since it gave me a nice wrapper for all
> functionality that I needed (from transversing the Metabase to
> decrypting passwords)
>
>>
>> I'm trying to trace down all the rights used by
>> IISConfig.Metabase.OpenLocalMachine on IISMbLib.dll assembly but all
>> I can find it's a direct call to CLSID_MSAdminBase_W object and it's
>> methods. Looking for it's CLSID on classes root, I found that
>> CLSID_MSAdminBase_W is DCOM IIS Admin Service (aka A
>
>> BO?).
>
> During my research on this issue (done more than 18 months ago, so I'm
> trying to remember what i did/found), like you, I found that all
> Metabase access are controlled by the ABO (IIS Admin Base Objects)
> object (which is included in a DLL but I can't remember its name).
>
> Note that you can also perform the same actions using WMI and the IIS
> ADSI provider
>
>>
>> So, the logical thing would be block anonimous access to that DCOM
>> object using dcomcnfg, but if I block that the IIS websites hosted on
>> the test machine stops working with service unavaliable error.
>>
> Well, you can't block access to that object since the w3wp needs to be
> able to read that data in order to configure the Application pool /
> websites.
>
> That said, under normal circumstances, it is the InetInfo process that
> reads that file (although I remember that Filemon would show an
> attempt to access the Metabase.xml file directly from w3wp)
>
>> I'm not finding much options here: If I block the anonimous access to
>> IIS Admin Service, IIS using the anonimous user impersonated
>> obvisually can't get access to IIS Admin Service, thus it can't start
>> the website configured to use that anonimous user (I'm right on that?).
>
> Yes
>
>>
>> The only solution that I find right now is to programatically permit
>> access to \LM\W3SVC\<siteID>\ROOT to the anonimous user configured to
>> that site only, and remove everyone on the parent ACL on the Metabase
>> ACLs. Do you guys know any other solution to fix that security issue
>> without touching metabase ACLs?
>>
> No I don't know any other solution.
>
> The only real solution for this problem (that I am aware of) is to
> change the Metabase Acls using something like metaacls.vbs (see 'INFO:
> ACLs and Using MetaACL for Metabase ACL Permission Changes'
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=326902) so that only the user used in
> your application pool has access to it.
>
> Note that although this solution is not really supported by Microsoft
> (and is not described in any book that talks about IIS and ASP.NET
> security!), it seems to work quite well in the real world.
>
> For example I know that the guys at ORCS protect they Metabase like
> this, and as far as I know they didn't have any side effects.
>
> I do have somewhere a script that automates this process (the ACLing
> of the Metabase) which I would like to add to SAM'SHE. Anybody has
> some spare cycles to convert it into .NET and build a web interface
> for it?
>
>> Thanks alot!
>>
> No probs, I hope my answers make sense
>
> Best regards
>
> Dinis Cruz
> .Net Security Consultant
> Owasp .Net Project Leader
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1177 (20050725) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
[note: I BCCed this email to some of my current contacts at Microsoft
since I don't think that they have realized the scale of this problem
(when I had a meeting at Redmond last month I had to re-explain this to
them, which was quite surprising since I had sent them information
about this issue more than 18 month ago and SAM'SHE has a test for this
for more than 1 year now). Hopefully we will get an official answer
from them :) ]<br>
<br>
Guilherme Magalhães wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name="GENERATOR">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">Hello Diniz,</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial"><font size="2"> Thank you very much for your \
comments, they're really clarifying. I hope your daughter is all right \
:)</font></font></span></div> </blockquote>
She is fine thanks, it was quite scary, but I guess that part of the
'parenthood experience' :)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span
class="984474118-26072005"> What I'm doing it's pretty much what
you described, running all sites on diferent app polls with different
users. But until now, I can't </span><span class="984474118-26072005">enable
Full Trust on production servers for obvious security reasons. \
</span></font></font></div> </blockquote>
I take my hat off to you, you are doing more than 99% of the
IIS/Asp.Net people I meet. Your company is very lucky in having you on
board (let me know if you ever think about new projects :)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span
class="984474118-26072005">I'm testing the metabase ACLs and it's
working pretty well on single server configuration, but it needs mode
QA testing to be deployed on the hosting cluster. </span></font></font></div>
</blockquote>
Contact the guys at Orcs web if you want to exchange some ideas (I CCed
them on this email and they can be contacted at <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" \
href="mailto:webteam@orcsweb.com">webteam@orcsweb.com</a>)<br> <blockquote \
cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span
class="984474118-26072005">And it's also good to remember that
CLSID_MSAdminBase_W can be created using classic ASP, what lead me in
the early stages of server security to use Metabase ACLs. </span></font></font></div>
</blockquote>
You're right. <br>
<br>
Btw, when you have some spare cycles, why don't you write a test for
SAM'SHE for the <font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span
class="984474118-26072005">CLSID_MSAdminBase_W? At the moment SAM'SHE
supports both Asp.Net and ASP Classic tests<br>
</span></font></font>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span
class="984474118-26072005">I believe that, maybe coupled with
application level firewall (that denies process lauch) and some hacking
on interop functions of the .NET framework we could safelly enable full
trust. But hey, I not sure about that yet :)</span></font></font></div>
</blockquote>
I doubt that you could ever pull this off. I am doing some research for
my Owasp US conference presentation (in October) which should prove
beyond any doubts that protecting Full Trust Asp.Net is impossible. <br>
<br>
My presentation title is "Rooting .Net (Building a CLR RootKit)" which
should give you an idea of what I am doing (drop me a line if you are
interested in participating in this research)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2"> I'm very concerd about IIS + ASP.net
security too. Everywhere I look around seaching for papers or anything
related to that, all I find is some great advice and warnings made by
you but I don't see any concern on the majority of hosting providers. \
</font></span></div> </blockquote>
Yes, and that is part of the reason why I stooped making noise about
it. Since nobody cares (including Microsoft), there is no point in
making a lot of noise and bringing this to the media (which would be so
easy to do (just expose a major ISP and their 'massively insecure Full
Trust Asp.Net environments') but would probably make people do very bad
rushed and panicky decisions).<br>
<br>
So I am waiting patiently for the market to catch up and for all
parties involved (from Hosting providers, to companies who own massive
Asp.Net server farms, to Microsoft, to the government) to catch up and
start the dialog about how we are going to solve this mess. Note that
you cannot 'patch' an application which was designed to be executed in
Full Trust Asp.Net!!<br>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">I believe that what you said about
Administrators and Developers are pretty much true, I'm almost
horrified testing big host providers security.</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
Last time I look 99% of them where massively insecure and would not be
able to sustain an attacked launched from one of their shared hosting
account (and in some cases, even from their 'dedicated servers'
accounts)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial"><font size="2"> I'll try to post the progress and
other info about IIS + ASP.net security while I go on with my tests. \
</font></font></span></div> </blockquote>
Please do, the more we know about this problem, the more able we will
be to defend against it.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial"><font size="2">One of the companies that I work for are
considering to build a brand new .NET 2.0 based control panel focused
on security, web clustering administration and easy code level
customization, as from I see we can't rely on what's avaliable on the
market today.</font></font></span></div>
</blockquote>
That sounds good, and we should also try to build something similar for
Owasp DotNet security tools. Anybody interested?<br>
<blockquote cite="mid20050726190449.7215ADDE448A@barracuda3.orcsweb.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">Thanks again,</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="984474118-26072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">Guilherme Magalhães</font></span></div>
<br>
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left" lang="pt-br">
<hr tabindex="-1"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>De:</b> Dinis Cruz
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" \
href="mailto:dinis@ddplus.net">mailto:dinis@ddplus.net</a>] <br> <b>Enviada em:</b> \
terça-feira, 26 de julho de 2005 05:22<br> <b>Para:</b> <a \
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" \
href="mailto:owasp-dotnet@lists.sourceforge.net">owasp-dotnet@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Guilherme Magalhães<br>
<b>Assunto:</b> Re: RES: [Owasp-dotnet] How to deny access to IIS
Admin Objects? <br>
</font><br>
</div>
Hello Guilherme<br>
<br>
First sorry for the delay in replying to your questions but I was in
Seattle two weeks ago and when I came back I had a small emergency with
my 4 months old daughter, which caused me to be in and out of hospital
all of last week (all is fine now, it was just a big scare) <br>
<br>
Regarding your questions see my comments bellow. <br>
<br>
Guilherme Magalhães wrote:
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name="GENERATOR">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">I mean listing anonimous account details from
each IIS website on a Win2k3 machine used for shared hosting.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span></div>
</blockquote>
Ok, so you are trying to protect a server which hosts multiple websites
(with some or all running under Full Trust). I'm assuming that you have
multiple application pools, with each application pool running under a
different identity (because if they are not, there is nothing you can
do to isolate them)<br>
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"><font
face="Arial"><font size="2">Using the same code of SamShe
Metabase.AfterRevertToSelf.Read.Websites.AnonymousAccountDetails it's
possible on a default windows installation to read from the metabase
all hosted sites and passwords, and that's as the test says is \
critical.</font></font></span></div> </blockquote>
Yes, that is true. This is one of those cases where Asp.Net hosting
introduces a vulnerability in IIS 6.0, and unfortunately goes
un-noticed in most environments because asp.net developers don't
understand the inner workings of IIS, and IIS administrators don't know
what can be done in Asp.Net<br>
<br>
You can also use the 'Online Metabase Explorer' tool included with
SAM'SHE to browse the Metabase and confirm that you can read all
Anonymous account details. If you look at the code for that tool you
will see that I am reusing the .NET assembly used in Microsoft's
'Metabase Explorer' tool since it gave me a nice wrapper for all
functionality that I needed (from transversing the Metabase to
decrypting passwords)<br>
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"><font
face="Arial"><font size="2">I'm trying to trace down all the rights
used by IISConfig.Metabase.OpenLocalMachine on IISMbLib.dll assembly
but all I can find it's a direct call to CLSID_MSAdminBase_W object and
it's methods. Looking for it's CLSID on classes root, I found that
CLSID_MSAdminBase_W is DCOM IIS Admin Service (aka A</font></font></span></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"><font
face="Arial"><font size="2">BO?).</font></font></span></div>
</blockquote>
During my research on this issue (done more than 18 months ago, so I'm
trying to remember what i did/found), like you, I found that all
Metabase access are controlled by the ABO (IIS Admin Base Objects)
object (which is included in a DLL but I can't remember its name).<br>
<br>
Note that you can also perform the same actions using WMI and the IIS
ADSI provider<br>
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">So, the logical thing would be block anonimous
access to that DCOM object using dcomcnfg, but if I block that the IIS
websites hosted on the test machine stops working with service
unavaliable error.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
Well, you can't block access to that object since the w3wp needs to be
able to read that data in order to configure the Application pool /
websites. <br>
<br>
That said, under normal circumstances, it is the InetInfo process that
reads that file (although I remember that Filemon would show an attempt
to access the Metabase.xml file directly from w3wp)<br>
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span><span
class="328345119-12072005"><font face="Arial" size="2">I'm not finding
much options here: If I block the anonimous access to IIS Admin
Service, IIS using the anonimous user impersonated obvisually can't get
access to IIS Admin Service, thus it can't start the website configured
to use that anonimous user (I'm right on that?).</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
Yes<br>
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">The only solution that I find right now is to
programatically permit access to \LM\W3SVC\<siteID>\ROOT to the
anonimous user configured to that site only, and remove everyone on the
parent ACL on the Metabase ACLs. Do you guys know any other solution to
fix that security issue without touching metabase ACLs?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
No I don't know any other solution.<br>
<br>
The only real solution for this problem (that I am aware of) is to
change the Metabase Acls using something like metaacls.vbs (see 'INFO:
ACLs and Using MetaACL for Metabase ACL Permission Changes' <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://support.microsoft.com/?id=326902">http://support.microsoft.com/?id=326902</a>)
so that only the user used in your application pool has access to it.<br>
<br>
Note that although this solution is not really supported by Microsoft
(and is not described in any book that talks about IIS and ASP.NET
security!), it seems to work quite well in the real world.<br>
<br>
For example I know that the guys at ORCS protect they Metabase like
this, and as far as I know they didn't have any side effects.<br>
<br>
I do have somewhere a script that automates this process (the ACLing of
the Metabase) which I would like to add to SAM'SHE. Anybody has some
spare cycles to convert it into .NET and build a web interface for it?<br>
<blockquote cite="midE1DsV66-0007sm-Au@sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"><font
face="Arial" size="2">Thanks alot!</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="328345119-12072005"></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
No probs, I hope my answers make sense<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Dinis Cruz<br>
.Net Security Consultant<br>
Owasp .Net Project Leader<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
__________ NOD32 1.1177 (20050725) Information __________<br>
<br>
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.<br>
<a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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