[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: otr-users
Subject: Re: [OTR-users] Automatically refresh session when receiving unreadable messag
From: "Bits" <gsnqa6734n () snkmail ! com>
Date: 2014-05-05 16:56:11
Message-ID: 4222-1399308976-975545 () sneakemail ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
[Attachment #2 (multipart/alternative)]
Jonas, thank you so much for coming up with that sequence list!
I often run into the same problem with OTR.
Or, I think it's the same problem - it's certainly the same symptoms.
This is really bothersome for convincing the people to use OTR. Their
experience is that it randomly and silently fails from time to time. They
find this annoying and the benefits using of strong encryption are not as
obvious to them, which makes using OTR a hard sale for me sometimes.
I'm using OTR 4.0 on Pidgin 2.10.9, but on Win 7, 8, and XP.
The people I communicate with are using similar setups on Windows boxes
and one on a Linux (Ubuntu or Mint)
--Bits
"Jonas otr-users-at-bcdf.eu |otr/Example Allow|"
<2qp2ux9jyt@sneakemail.com> writes:
>I'm using Pidgin 2.10.9 with OTR 4.0.0 on up to date Arch Linux.
>She is using Pidgin 2.10.7 with OTR 4.0.0 on Ubuntu.
>Thanks for your fast reply,
>Jonas
>Am 02.05.2014 23:34, schrieb Ian Goldberg:
>> On Fri, May 02, 2014 at 11:21:57PM +0200, Jonas wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm experiencing a rather annoying behavior which (in my humble
>opinion)
>>> should be easy to fix and might also affect other users.
>>>
>>> I'm using pidgin OTR with a friend who often just closes his laptop
>>> putting it to sleep with all his programs still open. The annoying
>>> scenario is as follows:
>>>
>>> 1. We begin a private conversation an write something.
>>>
>>> 2. My friend puts her laptop to sleep. This does not cause the private
>>> session to end.
>>>
>>> 3. I log off from pidgin closing the private session from my side. She
>>> is not notified since she is offline.
>>>
>>> 4. She opens her laptop again -- nothing changed for her.
>>>
>>> 5. I log in again. (You can exchange steps 4 and 5.)
>>>
>>> 6. She writes me a message. Because her pidgin thinks she still has a
>>> private session open it is sent encrypted. I just receive "the message
>>> is unread because you are not in a private conversation" (rough
>>> translation, my pidgin is not in English).
>>>
>>> 7. She doesn't even notice what she's sending me is unreadable. So
>until
>>> I don't manually refresh the session and ask her to resend her messages
>>> again she continues to send unreadable messages.
>>>
>>> In my opinion a solution to this issue would be the following:
>>>
>>> If a client receives an unreadable message due do a non-existing
>private
>>> session then:
>>> a) Update the session
>>> b) Notify the sender that the received message was unreadable
>>> c) (Senders side:) Resend the message
>>>
>>> I know that this might cause problems using multiple clients with OTR
>>> and XMPP. But for me -- as I'm only using one client -- it would
>greatly
>>> improve my user experience. By having something like this as an
>optional
>>> feature one could satisfy both groups of people.
>>
>> If I understand your scenario correctly that's what used to happen in
>> pidgin-otr 3.x. I thought that behaviour didn't change in 4.x, but it
>> could be that, as you say, the interaction with the "don't go insane
>> when people log in more than once" feature of pidgin-otr 4.x could have
>> interacted with it.
>>
>> What OS, pidgin, and pidgin-otr versions are each of you using?
>>
>> - Ian
>> _______________________________________________
>> OTR-users mailing list
>> OTR-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca
>> http://lists.cypherpunks.ca/mailman/listinfo/otr-users
>>
>_______________________________________________
>OTR-users mailing list
>OTR-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" />
<title></title>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
body{margin-left:10px;margin-right:10px;margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:10px;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body marginleft="10" marginright="10" margintop="10" marginbottom="10">
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Calibri" size="+1" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;">Jonas, \
thank you so much for coming up with that sequence list!</font></div> <div \
align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Calibri" size="+1" color="#000000" \
style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;">I often run into the same \
problem with OTR.</font></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font \
face="Calibri" size="+1" color="#000000" \
style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;">Or, I think it's the same \
problem - it's certainly the same symptoms.</font></div> <br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Calibri" size="+1" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;">This is \
really bothersome for convincing the people to use OTR. Their experience is \
that it randomly and silently fails from time to time. They find this annoying \
and the benefits using of strong encryption are not as obvious to them, which makes \
using OTR a hard sale for me sometimes.</font></div> <br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Calibri" size="+1" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;">I'm using \
OTR 4.0 on Pidgin 2.10.9, but on Win 7, 8, and XP.</font></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><font face="Calibri" size="+1" color="#000000" \
style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;">The people I communicate \
with are using similar setups on Windows boxes and one on a Linux (Ubuntu or \
Mint)</font></div> <br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Calibri" size="+1" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:14pt;color:#000000;">--Bits</font></div>
<br />
<br />
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><font face="Arial" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;"><b>"Jonas \
otr-users-at-bcdf.eu |otr/Example Allow|" <<a \
href="mailto:2qp2ux9jyt@sneakemail.com">2qp2ux9jyt@sneakemail.com</a>> \
writes:</b></font></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">I'm \
using Pidgin 2.10.9 with OTR 4.0.0 on up to date Arch Linux.</font></span></div> <div \
align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font \
face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">She is using Pidgin 2.10.7 with OTR 4.0.0 on \
Ubuntu.</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Thanks for your fast reply,</font></span></div> \
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Jonas</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Am 02.05.2014 23:34, schrieb Ian \
Goldberg:</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> On Fri, May 02, 2014 at 11:21:57PM +0200, \
Jonas wrote:</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> Hello,</font></span></div> <div \
align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font \
face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> I'm experiencing a rather annoying \
behavior which (in my humble opinion)</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> should be easy to fix and might also \
affect other users.</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> I'm using pidgin OTR with a friend who \
often just closes his laptop</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> putting it to sleep with all his \
programs still open. The annoying</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> scenario is as \
follows:</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> 1. We begin a private conversation an \
write something.</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> 2. My friend puts her laptop to sleep. \
This does not cause the private</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> session to end.</font></span></div> \
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> 3. I log off from pidgin closing the \
private session from my side. She</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> is not notified since she is \
offline.</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> 4. She opens her laptop again -- \
nothing changed for her.</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> 5. I log in again. (You can exchange \
steps 4 and 5.)</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> 6. She writes me a message. Because her \
pidgin thinks she still has a</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> private session open it is sent \
encrypted. I just receive "the message</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> is unread because you are not in a \
private conversation" (rough</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> translation, my pidgin is not in \
English).</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> 7. She doesn't even notice what she's \
sending me is unreadable. So until</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> I don't manually refresh the session \
and ask her to resend her messages</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> again she continues to send unreadable \
messages.</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> In my opinion a solution to this issue \
would be the following:</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> If a client receives an unreadable \
message due do a non-existing private</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> session then:</font></span></div> <div \
align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font \
face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> a) Update the \
session</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> b) Notify the sender that the received \
message was unreadable</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> c) (Senders side:) Resend the \
message</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>></font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> I know that this might cause problems \
using multiple clients with OTR</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> and XMPP. But for me -- as I'm only \
using one client -- it would greatly</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> improve my user experience. By having \
something like this as an optional</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">>> feature one could satisfy both groups \
of people.</font></span></div> <div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> </font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> If I understand your scenario correctly \
that's what used to happen in</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> pidgin-otr 3.x. I thought that behaviour \
didn't change in 4.x, but it</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> could be that, as you say, the interaction \
with the "don't go insane</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> when people log in more than once" \
feature of pidgin-otr 4.x could have</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> What OS, pidgin, and pidgin-otr versions \
are each of you using?</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> </font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> - Ian</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> \
_______________________________________________</font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> OTR-users mailing list</font></span></div> \
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> <a \
href="mailto:OTR-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca">OTR-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca</a></font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> <a \
href="http://lists.cypherpunks.ca/mailman/listinfo/otr-users" \
target="_blank">http://lists.cypherpunks.ca/mailman/listinfo/otr-users</a></font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">> </font></span></div> <div align="left" \
style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times \
New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">_______________________________________________</font></span></div>
<div align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span \
style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" \
color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">OTR-users mailing list</font></span></div> <div \
align="left" style="text-align:left;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font \
face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New \
Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><a \
href="mailto:OTR-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca">OTR-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca</a></font></span></div>
<br />
<br/>
</body>
</html>
_______________________________________________
OTR-users mailing list
OTR-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca
http://lists.cypherpunks.ca/mailman/listinfo/otr-users
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic