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List: osgeo-discuss
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] inspire conference 2013: help with presentation proposal
From: heikki <tropicano () gmail ! com>
Date: 2013-03-15 12:58:47
Message-ID: CAKfrHVR+W9d2oW8T2z+WqQVR=WEC7XdZM1hhDXcU_2SmAk=yPw () mail ! gmail ! com
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Arnulf,
I tend to agree with Margherita that it makes sense to have JRC INSPIRE
Technical Committee members for OSGeo developers dialog partners in the
Pingpong workshop, as it allows for defining a very practical goal for it:
see if and where the Technical Guidelines might be improved.
This is not to say I disagree with your thought that implementors should
take more ownership of it, but maybe this workshop is not the vehicle for
that, as that is a large and unorganized group of people and the workshop
dialog might lose practical goal and direction.
Kind regards
Heikki Doeleman
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:35 PM, heikki <tropicano@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I've added a section to the wiki to clarify that we're talking about two
> separate events, a presentation and a workshop :
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Presentation_and_workshop
> .
>
> Kind regards
> Heikki Doeleman
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Francisco José Peñarrubia <fjp@scolab.es>wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Just a few comments about the document.
>>
>> In "Keywords", there are Open Source projects that are not related with
>> OSGeo. As far as I know, NASA Worldwind is not in OSGeo, and gvSIG CE is a
>> fork of the official gvSIG, which is in incubation.
>>
>> About Notes and Goals, I would add something related to How JRC or
>> Inspire can support OSGeo projects (using them, contributing to the
>> communities, or even making some recommendations).
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> Fran.
>>
>> 2013/3/15 Seven (aka Arnulf) <seven@arnulf.us>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Madi,
>>> I am pretty sure that "Members of the JRC INSPIRE Technical Committee"
>>> is also sort of "wrong". The JRC is only the "facilitator" for the
>>> "INSPIRE process". They are (and definitely don't *feel*)
>>> "responsible" for INSPIRE. In the end it is the member states who are
>>> responsible for everything and you can't get a hold of them either
>>> because they send people to do something about INSPIRE. Then there are
>>> the SIGs and some companies are also involved in defining the rules,
>>> some get paid, some don't, some want to influence the process so that
>>> they can sell their software and so on. Slippery slopes all over the
>>> place.
>>>
>>> - From all the quotes in this you can easily tell that definition-wise
>>> this is a big mess. And it got me into trouble every single time in
>>> the past ten years that I tried to interact with anybody "responsible"
>>> for INSPIRE.
>>>
>>> My suggestion was and is that those people who have to implement
>>> INSPIRE finally take ownership of it. That is broadly said "INSPIRE
>>> users". But feel free to go ahead as you think fits best.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Arnulf
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15.03.2013 12:08, Margherita Di Leo wrote:
>>> > Hi Arnulf,
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Seven (aka Arnulf)
>>> > <seven@arnulf.us <mailto:seven@arnulf.us>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Folks, I really like the idea of the round table but changed some
>>> > wording to amend the expectations for it. This was mainly to the
>>> > effect of avoiding up front misunderstanding which invariably over
>>> > the past years lead to unnecessary friction.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Thank you for that, it sounds way better now. We don't aim to
>>> >> create any friction but to improve the dialog, so smoothing the
>>> >> tone was a good thing IMHO.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The whole point of INSPIRE is that there is nobody singly
>>> > responsible. It has evolved over time and through the contribution
>>> > of the broadest set of different people from different backgrounds
>>> > and many are not even involved any more. Therefore we cannot really
>>> > talk to "the people responsible for INSPIRE" - there simply are
>>> > none. To avoid having one side of the table empty I changed
>>> > "members of the INSPIRE Technical Committee" to "users involved
>>> > with INSPIRE". Maybe that is too broad, if so please change to
>>> > something else.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Here maybe there was a misunderstanding. With "Members of the
>>> >> INSPIRE Technical Committee" I meant people from JRC working on
>>> >> the implementation of the technical rules, so if you agree I'd
>>> >> change this in: "Members of the JRC INSPIRE Technical Committee".
>>> >> Users involved with INSPIRE are of course welcome as well..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > To the same effect I changed "discussion" (which always results in
>>> > one winner and one loser) to "dialog" (which means that people
>>> > listen to each other and learn from each other).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> very good.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hope this sits well with you, otherwise feel free to revert to an
>>> > earlier version.
>>> >
>>> > Please note that the Wiki had a hickup when saving two conflicting
>>> > edits, so one intermediate version is raw HTML. I tried to save
>>> > the earlier changes, mainly adding Paolo to the list of
>>> > contributors. Please recheck, if you edited in the past hour or
>>> > so.
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to seeing some of you at the conference.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Thanks! m
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Cheers, Arnulf
>>> >
>>> > On 14.03.2013 22:14, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>> >> Hi Margherita, Jachym.
>>> >
>>> >> Margherita, thanks for the workshop proposal draft. I will
>>> >> review this too.
>>> >
>>> >> Jachym, the abstract review is done on my side. Please have a
>>> >> look.
>>> >
>>> >> Regards, Angelos
>>> >
>>> >> On 03/14/2013 10:41 PM, Margherita Di Leo wrote:
>>> >>> Thank you Jachym. I also prepared the workshop proposal here
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Tennis_table_match:_OSGeo_vs_INSPIRE
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> if you guys could also review this. And, of course, add your names and
>>> >>> affiliations.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Angelos Tzotsos
>>> >>> <gcpp.kalxas@gmail.com <mailto:gcpp.kalxas@gmail.com>>wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Hi Jachym,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I will review the proposal and make additions/corrections.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Regards, Angelos
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 03/14/2013 07:46 PM, Jachym Cepicky wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Hi,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> can anybody please have a look at the proposal of
>>> >>>> presentation of INSPIRE conference, I've prepared at [1]?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I'm not native speaker, nor do I use the language (English)
>>> >>>> very fluently, so any help mostly welcomed.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I would also like to ask, if someone has the capacity and
>>> >>>> inspiration, that he/she could extend or rewrite completely
>>> >>>> the proposal I've prepared (and add his/her name at the
>>> >>>> top).
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks for help, more work will come if the proposal will be
>>> >>>> accepted
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Jachym
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> [1]
>>> >>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Paper_proposal
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> Discuss mailing
>>> >>>>
>>> > listDiscuss@lists.osgeo.orghttp://
>>> lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> >
>>> >
>>> <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing
>>> > list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org>
>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- Best regards,
>>> >
>>> > Margherita DI LEO Postdoctoral Researcher
>>> >
>>> > European Commission - DG JRC Institute for Environment and
>>> > Sustainability (IES) Via Fermi, 2749 I-21027 Ispra (VA) - Italy -
>>> > TP 261
>>> >
>>> > Tel. +39 0332 78 3600 margherita.di-leo@jrc.ec.europa.eu
>>> > <mailto:margherita.di-leo@jrc.ec.europa.eu>
>>> >
>>> > Disclaimer: The views expressed are purely those of the writer and
>>> > may not in any circumstance be regarded as stating an official
>>> > position of the European Commission.
>>>
>>> - --
>>> Exploring Space, Time and Mind
>>> http://arnulf.us
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/
>>>
>>> iEYEARECAAYFAlFDCxMACgkQXmFKW+BJ1b0+VwCfZ/L1oXuTe+HH6gKfzk/GDCzb
>>> G5oAn1RVfwbpb/5NBOFDXY4l4kvU/lAC
>>> =Om7B
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Francisco José Peñarrubia
>>
>> Software Colaborativo
>> http://www.scolab.es
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Arnulf,<div><br></div><div>I tend to agree with Margherita that it makes sense to \
have JRC INSPIRE Technical Committee members for OSGeo developers dialog partners in \
the Pingpong workshop, as it allows for defining a very practical goal for it: see if \
and where the Technical Guidelines might be improved.</div> <div><br></div><div>This \
is not to say I disagree with your thought that implementors should take more \
ownership of it, but maybe this workshop is not the vehicle for that, as that is a \
large and unorganized group of people and the workshop dialog might lose practical \
goal and direction.</div> <div><br></div><div>Kind regards</div><div>Heikki \
Doeleman</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 15, \
2013 at 1:35 PM, heikki <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tropicano@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">tropicano@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex">hi,<div><br></div><div>I've added a section to the wiki \
to clarify that we're talking about two separate events, a presentation and a \
workshop : <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Presentation_and_workshop" \
target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Presentation_and_workshop</a>.<br>
<br>Kind regards</div><div>Heikki Doeleman</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div \
class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On \
Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Francisco José Peñarrubia <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:fjp@scolab.es" target="_blank">fjp@scolab.es</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi.<div><br></div><div>Just a few comments about the \
document.</div><div><br></div><div>In "Keywords", there are Open Source \
projects that are not related with OSGeo. As far as I know, NASA Worldwind is not in \
OSGeo, and gvSIG CE is a fork of the official gvSIG, which is in incubation.</div>
<div><br></div><div>About Notes and Goals, I would add something related to How JRC \
or Inspire can support OSGeo projects (using them, contributing to the communities, \
or even making some recommendations).</div><div><br>
</div>
<div>My 2 cents.</div><div><br></div><div>Best \
regards.</div><div><br></div><div>Fran.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/3/15 \
Seven (aka Arnulf) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seven@arnulf.us" \
target="_blank">seven@arnulf.us</a>></span><div>
<div><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
</div>Madi,<br>
I am pretty sure that "Members of the JRC INSPIRE Technical Committee"<br>
is also sort of "wrong". The JRC is only the "facilitator" for \
the<br> "INSPIRE process". They are (and definitely don't *feel*)<br>
"responsible" for INSPIRE. In the end it is the member states who are<br>
responsible for everything and you can't get a hold of them either<br>
because they send people to do something about INSPIRE. Then there are<br>
the SIGs and some companies are also involved in defining the rules,<br>
some get paid, some don't, some want to influence the process so that<br>
they can sell their software and so on. Slippery slopes all over the<br>
place.<br>
<br>
- From all the quotes in this you can easily tell that definition-wise<br>
this is a big mess. And it got me into trouble every single time in<br>
the past ten years that I tried to interact with anybody "responsible"<br>
for INSPIRE.<br>
<br>
My suggestion was and is that those people who have to implement<br>
INSPIRE finally take ownership of it. That is broadly said "INSPIRE<br>
users". But feel free to go ahead as you think fits best.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Arnulf<br>
<div><br>
<br>
On 15.03.2013 12:08, Margherita Di Leo wrote:<br>
> Hi Arnulf,<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Seven (aka Arnulf)<br>
</div><div><div>> <<a href="mailto:seven@arnulf.us" \
target="_blank">seven@arnulf.us</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seven@arnulf.us" \
target="_blank">seven@arnulf.us</a>>> wrote:<br> ><br>
> Folks, I really like the idea of the round table but changed some<br>
> wording to amend the expectations for it. This was mainly to the<br>
> effect of avoiding up front misunderstanding which invariably over<br>
> the past years lead to unnecessary friction.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Thank you for that, it sounds way better now. We don't aim to<br>
>> create any friction but to improve the dialog, so smoothing the<br>
>> tone was a good thing IMHO.<br>
><br>
><br>
> The whole point of INSPIRE is that there is nobody singly<br>
> responsible. It has evolved over time and through the contribution<br>
> of the broadest set of different people from different backgrounds<br>
> and many are not even involved any more. Therefore we cannot really<br>
> talk to "the people responsible for INSPIRE" - there simply are<br>
> none. To avoid having one side of the table empty I changed<br>
> "members of the INSPIRE Technical Committee" to "users \
involved<br> > with INSPIRE". Maybe that is too broad, if so please change \
to<br> > something else.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Here maybe there was a misunderstanding. With "Members of the<br>
>> INSPIRE Technical Committee" I meant people from JRC working on<br>
>> the implementation of the technical rules, so if you agree I'd<br>
>> change this in: "Members of the JRC INSPIRE Technical \
Committee".<br> >> Users involved with INSPIRE are of course welcome as \
well..<br> <br>
<br>
<br>
> To the same effect I changed "discussion" (which always results in<br>
> one winner and one loser) to "dialog" (which means that people<br>
> listen to each other and learn from each other).<br>
><br>
><br>
>> very good.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Hope this sits well with you, otherwise feel free to revert to an<br>
> earlier version.<br>
><br>
> Please note that the Wiki had a hickup when saving two conflicting<br>
> edits, so one intermediate version is raw HTML. I tried to save<br>
> the earlier changes, mainly adding Paolo to the list of<br>
> contributors. Please recheck, if you edited in the past hour or<br>
> so.<br>
><br>
> Looking forward to seeing some of you at the conference.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Thanks! m<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Arnulf<br>
><br>
> On 14.03.2013 22:14, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:<br>
>> Hi Margherita, Jachym.<br>
><br>
>> Margherita, thanks for the workshop proposal draft. I will<br>
>> review this too.<br>
><br>
>> Jachym, the abstract review is done on my side. Please have a<br>
>> look.<br>
><br>
>> Regards, Angelos<br>
><br>
>> On 03/14/2013 10:41 PM, Margherita Di Leo wrote:<br>
>>> Thank you Jachym. I also prepared the workshop proposal here<br>
>>><br>
> <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Tennis_table_match:_OSGeo_vs_INSPIRE" \
target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Tennis_table_match:_OSGeo_vs_INSPIRE</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
><br>
><br>
if you guys could also review this. And, of course, add your names and<br>
>>> affiliations.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Angelos Tzotsos<br>
</div></div>>>> <<a href="mailto:gcpp.kalxas@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">gcpp.kalxas@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a \
href="mailto:gcpp.kalxas@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">gcpp.kalxas@gmail.com</a>>>wrote:<br> <div>>>><br>
>>>> Hi Jachym,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I will review the proposal and make additions/corrections.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Regards, Angelos<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 03/14/2013 07:46 PM, Jachym Cepicky wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Hi,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> can anybody please have a look at the proposal of<br>
>>>> presentation of INSPIRE conference, I've prepared at [1]?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I'm not native speaker, nor do I use the language (English)<br>
>>>> very fluently, so any help mostly welcomed.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I would also like to ask, if someone has the capacity and<br>
>>>> inspiration, that he/she could extend or rewrite completely<br>
>>>> the proposal I've prepared (and add his/her name at the<br>
>>>> top).<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Thanks for help, more work will come if the proposal will be<br>
>>>> accepted<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Jachym<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> [1]<br>
>>>> <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Paper_proposal" \
target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/INSPIRE_conference_2013#Paper_proposal</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
><br>
>>>><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Discuss mailing<br>
>>>><br>
> listDiscuss@lists.osgeo.orghttp://<a \
href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" \
target="_blank">lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br> ><br>
><br>
</div><<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" \
target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a>><br> \
>>>><br> >>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing<br>
> list <a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" \
target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a \
href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" \
target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a>><br> <div>> <a \
href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" \
target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br> ><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -- Best regards,<br>
><br>
> Margherita DI LEO Postdoctoral Researcher<br>
><br>
> European Commission - DG JRC Institute for Environment and<br>
> Sustainability (IES) Via Fermi, 2749 I-21027 Ispra (VA) - Italy -<br>
> TP 261<br>
><br>
> Tel. <a href="tel:%2B39%200332%2078%203600" value="+390332783600" \
target="_blank">+39 0332 78 3600</a> <a \
href="mailto:margherita.di-leo@jrc.ec.europa.eu" \
target="_blank">margherita.di-leo@jrc.ec.europa.eu</a><br> </div>> <mailto:<a \
href="mailto:margherita.di-leo@jrc.ec.europa.eu" \
target="_blank">margherita.di-leo@jrc.ec.europa.eu</a>><br> <div>><br>
> Disclaimer: The views expressed are purely those of the writer and<br>
> may not in any circumstance be regarded as stating an official<br>
> position of the European Commission.<br>
<br>
</div><div>- --<br>
Exploring Space, Time and Mind<br>
<a href="http://arnulf.us" target="_blank">http://arnulf.us</a><br>
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target="_blank">http://www.enigmail.net/</a><br> <br>
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<div><div>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" \
target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br> <a \
href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" \
target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br> \
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888"><br><br \
clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Francisco José Peñarrubia<br><br>Software \
Colaborativo<br><a href="http://www.scolab.es" \
target="_blank">http://www.scolab.es</a> </font></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org" \
target="_blank">Discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a><br> <a \
href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" \
target="_blank">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br> \
<br></blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
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