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List:       opensuse-factory
Subject:    Re: [opensuse-factory] No more fake New tumbleweed snapshot released emails
From:       Carl Symons <carlsymons () gmail ! com>
Date:       2018-04-01 17:48:12
Message-ID: 896d4eb4-6c4c-a63a-2742-87a85a052992 () gmail ! com
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On 04/01/2018 03:41 AM, Joachim Wagner wrote:
>> When you reply to report some issues, make sure to change the subject.
>> It is not helpful to keep the release announcement subject in a thread
>> while discussing a specific problem.
> 
> Shouldn't the call rather be asking people to start a proper new thread, e.g. 
> click "start a new thread" rather than "reply", if their e-mail client has 
> such a button, or start a new message by clicking on the e-mail address of the 
> mailing list (or by copy and pasting the address)?

Based on no empirical evidence ... it's likely that the message is
related to the TW snapshot (such as "I did this update and my computer
broke"). It seems unlikely that a Tumbleweed user would report a problem
or request assistance by picking any old new snapshot message. So it's
helpful to know of that (potential) cause/effect.

Speaking only from my own experience, when something breaks, my first
reaction is surprise (as it happens rarely) and then something like
panic. After all, Tumbleweed is complex and I probably don't know how to
fix it, or even understand it. It's only after calming down, that I realize:
- Fixing stuff is mostly how I've learned everything that I know about
Linux and openSUSE.
- If I have the problem, then probably others do too.
- The TW community is inclined to be helpful.
- If I'm going to ask for assistance, I should change the subject line
or start a new thread.
In light of this, it can be understood why someone would have an
automatic reaction to an issue by replying to a new snapshot message,
and why they wouldn't change the subject line.

> 
> The default mail client of the default desktop of openSUSE Leap, i.e. KMail, 
> displays all replies inside the thread regardless of subject changes.
> 
> Given that replies are linked to a thread via the "In-Reply-To" and 
> "References" e-mail headers, I'd think that KMail's behaviour is correct, even 
> though I understand that the behaviour of gmail (and other clients?) that 
> break a thread when the subject line changes is more practical as many users 
> these days seem to reply to any old old e-mail they can find from the intended 
> recipient to start a new message.
> 
> Questions:
> 
>  (1) Is KMail's threaded view the exception or is gmail the exception?
> 
>  (2) Are there mailing list guidelines for the opensuse list and should an 
> automated reminder with a link to the guidelines be posted, e.g. quarterly?

I agree with Per Jessen ... Probably will make little difference.

> 
>  (3) Wouldn't it be a simpler solution for automated scripts that watch this 
> mailing list for automated notifications to check that the "In-Reply-To" header 
> is absent, rather than trying to stop replies?

The simplest solution is for Tumbleweed users/mailing list subscribers
to do what is asked. Failing that (and it will fail), anyone on the list
can change the subject to something more useful.

Stopping replies is not the goal. Rather it is to avoid inaccurate,
distracting, marginally useful subjects. Personally, I _want_ to know if
there's potential breakage in the snapshot.

Carl


> 
> Joachim
> 

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