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List:       opensuse-factory
Subject:    Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: Why openSUSE uses KDE by default?
From:       Carl Symons <carlsymons () gmail ! com>
Date:       2017-04-14 19:12:15
Message-ID: CAPu7pzJ=tDtvgE0-U09XeUsgsRbnZ+FZqjQfX7Y5qosmfOTSXw () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Michal Suchanek <msuchanek@suse.de> wrote=
:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:11:56 -0400
> Todd Rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM, R=C3=BCdiger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On 04/14/2017 04:07 PM, Luca Beltrame wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Il giorno Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:19:54 +0200
>> >> R=C3=BCdiger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> ha scritto:
>> >>
>> >>> Moreover if ktorrent and other mentioned programs would be
>> >>> developed independently then one could just easily try out a
>> >>> newer (probably
>> >
>> >
>> >> You *can* do that already. You don't need to install Plasma to run
>> >> ktorrent.
>> >>
>> >> And they're developed independently. In particular, ktorrent is
>> >> part of the "extragear" group of applications, meaning that they
>> >> have their own release schedule and their own pace of development.
>> >> They have no ties with either Frameworks, Plasma, or
>> >> Applications.
>> >
>> >
>> > I've just tried for fun to install ktorrent and gave up after 30
>> > minutes. I don't think there is a way to install it without many
>> > other deps from the kde project. There is no documentation about
>> > what dependencies are needed. I can only run cmake again and again,
>> > downloading and installing more and more deps from KDE and hoping
>> > that finally it would not complain anymore. I'd say it does not
>> > look like ktorrent is made for users who simply wants to install a
>> > torrent client quickly.
>> >
>> > Maybe people who are familiar with the KDE tree like you may manage
>> > this faster than me, for me it's too painful.
>>
>> The dependencies are listed in CMakeLists.txt, and they all seem like
>> pretty straightforward things that something like ktorrent would need.
>>
>> But when it comes to building from source, generally it is easier to
>> use kdesrc-build, which handles all of that for you.  GNOME has
>> something similar called Jhbuild. Lots of projects have similar tools
>> to make dependency handling easier.
>>
>> This isn't a particular issue with KDE, any useful piece of software
>> will require multiple dependencies. I don't see why you think projects
>> that are part of the KDE community are particularly bad in this
>> regard. On the contrary, a lot of work has been going on to limit the
>> dependencies of KDE software to only what is really needed.
>>
>> >> Other examples include yakuake, konversation, labplot...
>> >
>> > Haven't checked them but I know also two good examples qcachegrind
>> > and troijta which have no kde but only Qt deps. Still the fact that
>> > they are hosted on kde.org makes them suspect to me (the "trust"
>> > thing). I'm using qcachegrind (no alternative) but I would not use
>> > troijta, since it was moved to KDE in 2012.
>>
>> So you are saying you explicitly distrust anything and everything that
>> is part of the KDE community, merely based on the fact that they
>> choose to associate with that community?
>
> Given the quality of software delivered by the project over the years?
>
> Totally.
>
> My guess is the average quality of anything k* is below the average of
> random piece of software downloaded off the interwebz.
>
> That's been my experience over the years trying some k* applications or
> the whole DE from time to time.

KDE users are fine with what they're using and don't seem to be
antagonistic towards GNOME, at least on this thread. It's telling that
some people associated with GNOME such as Michal Suchanek resort to
outlandish disparagement of KDE.

I've had some difficulties with applications from the KDE Community.
In my own experience, the Community has been quick to resolve them.
Very helpful. However, I've also had difficulties with GNOME-related
applications (such as a simple clipboard that required an extension
and that often needed a restart.)

Not advocating for your favorite UI while disparaging another UI is
unlikely to gain supporters.

We're discussing a radio button choice here. This insulting language
and disparagement is not germane to that subject. You're not only
insulting software; your nasty language insults people who like using
KDE.

>
> I mean one of the responsibilities of a project *is* to keep software
> in shape or trash it as has been said numerous times. Otherwise the
> people not really familiar with the project structure judge it by all
> the 'extra gears' that are not part of it but pre-installed by default
> or recommended by KDE. It is probably aggravated by the sponging up
> of applications and renaming them k*.

False. Just wrong. What are you trying to accomplish with this propaganda?

Wouldn't it be easier to say that you strongly prefer GNOME? Do you
think that it helps attract users when you bad-mouth? That's nutz.

I have had no end of trouble with https://extensions.gnome.org/. I
work around the issues or get help. Anything other than coming to a
public, collegial email list and denigrating stuff.

It is hard to let the thing go and
> not getting connected with it when it starts going under once you made
> it obvious part of the DE.
>
> Thanks

Thanks for what?

Carl


>
> Michal
> --
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