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List:       opensuse-factory
Subject:    Re: [opensuse-factory] Update while active graphical desktop session made logout impossible
From:       Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= <lmuelle () suse ! com>
Date:       2012-12-21 18:29:48
Message-ID: 20121221182948.GI31742 () hip ! suse ! com
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On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:20:53PM +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
> * Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> [2012-12-20 19:52]:
> > 
> > a recent update to KDE made it impossible to the user to logout or
> > to shutdown the system.
> > 
> > Therefore I suggest to change our default way how updates are applied.
> > 
> > a) Always download the updates in advance in the background
> > 
> > We could even be more elegant and throttle the download speed if other
> > processes use the same link.
> > 
> > b) Apply the updates on shutdown
> > 
> > Doing b) after the user finished the X sesison ensures we never lock her
> > in.
> > 
> > Via a new setting is a /etc/sysconfig/ file we're able to change the
> > default.  For example to apply updates always at system startup or to
> > keep the update process at the same way as it currently is.
> > 
> > Maybe we're already able to achieve this and I missed the configuration
> > option.  But our current default settings lead to the described desktop
> > lock situation.
> 
> Please no, lets not copy this awful design from Windows/OSX.

With intention I didn't wrote: others are able to keep it simple and
stupid and made this work since ages.

Please make a better and as simple suggestion to circumvent the
described issue.

We already have the multiversion feature you must enable by hand in
/etc/zypp/zypp.conf for the kernel and then you still need
multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running and grub2 to get a simple
and more reliable setup without much extra cost.

Something like this is easy to use and understandable by our userbase.

> Rather get some inspiration from beadm and utilize snapper to
> create a snapshot of the system fs, mount and chroot into it,
> apply the updates, and finally make it the default to boot into
> on the next reboot.

btrfs is nice to have.  But I don't like to push btrfs as mandatory.

> That not only avoids the downsides such as annoyingly long
> shutdown times for desktop users or long downtimes for servers
> but it has also the advantage that it makes updates safe. If
> something goes wrong during the update no harm is done and if the
> updated boot environment does not boot or is broken you can
> simply reboot into the pre-update environment.
> Of course that'd require a fs with writable snapshots like btrfs
> and would put some constraints on the fs layout but since this
> can remain an optional feature that should not be a problem.

The feature I suggested isn't optional.

Thanks,

Lars
-- 
Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ]
Samba Team + SUSE Labs
SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

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