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List:       opensuse-factory
Subject:    Re: [opensuse-factory] Update while active graphical desktop session made logout impossible
From:       Guido Berhoerster <gber () opensuse ! org>
Date:       2012-12-21 8:48:21
Message-ID: 20121221084820.GA26941 () hal ! local ! invalid
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* Andrey Borzenkov <arvidjaar@gmail.com> [2012-12-21 04:00]:
> В Thu, 20 Dec 2012 21:20:53 +0100
> Guido Berhoerster <gber@opensuse.org> пишет:
> 
> > * Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> [2012-12-20 19:52]:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > a recent update to KDE made it impossible to the user to logout or
> > > to shutdown the system.
> > > 
> > > Therefore I suggest to change our default way how updates are applied.
> > > 
> > > a) Always download the updates in advance in the background
> > > 
> > > We could even be more elegant and throttle the download speed if other
> > > processes use the same link.
> > > 
> > > b) Apply the updates on shutdown
> > > 
> > > Doing b) after the user finished the X sesison ensures we never lock her
> > > in.
> > > 
> > > Via a new setting is a /etc/sysconfig/ file we're able to change the
> > > default.  For example to apply updates always at system startup or to
> > > keep the update process at the same way as it currently is.
> > > 
> > > Maybe we're already able to achieve this and I missed the configuration
> > > option.  But our current default settings lead to the described desktop
> > > lock situation.
> > 
> > Please no, lets not copy this awful design from Windows/OSX.
> > Rather get some inspiration from beadm and utilize snapper to
> > create a snapshot of the system fs, mount and chroot into it,
> > apply the updates, and finally make it the default to boot into
> > on the next reboot.
> > That not only avoids the downsides such as annoyingly long
> > shutdown times for desktop users or long downtimes for servers
> > but it has also the advantage that it makes updates safe. If
> > something goes wrong during the update no harm is done and if the
> > updated boot environment does not boot or is broken you can
> > simply reboot into the pre-update environment.
> > Of course that'd require a fs with writable snapshots like btrfs
> > and would put some constraints on the fs layout but since this
> > can remain an optional feature that should not be a problem.
> 
> Sun did this for years with Alternate Boot Environment, long before ZFS
> was invented (or at least made available). There is no need to have
> fancy filesystems for it.

Without a fancy fs with COW and snapshots each bootenv would
require as much disk space as the system occupies, not to mention
that it would be slow and not something you'd want to run on
every zypper dup (which is why Solaris Liveupgrade eventually got
replaced by beadm in OpenSolaris/Solaris 11).
-- 
Guido Berhoerster
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