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List:       opensuse
Subject:    Re: [opensuse] systemd
From:       Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink <knurpht () opensuse ! org>
Date:       2017-07-14 22:09:16
Message-ID: 2602268.0JBitp39XJ () knurphtlaptop
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Op zaterdag 15 juli 2017 00:02:05 CEST schreef Brian K. White:
> On 7/14/2017 4:48 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink vv wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 14 juli 2017 22:22:18 CEST schreef Brian K. White:
> >> On 7/14/2017 3:34 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
> >>> On 14/07/17 03:11 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
> >>>> Furthermore I'd like to state I'm not a friend of Lennart, never met
> >>>> him
> >>>> actually, but that I do dislike the bashing of him. IMHO he's one of
> >>>> the
> >>>> FOSS people that have dared to step up and do something. Which, IMNSHO
> >>>> deserves respect.
> >>> 
> >>> Indeed.
> >>> 
> >>> In one of the classic texts on logical circuit design, so fundamental
> >>> that
> >>> its idea are probably embedded in every design tool and now taken for
> >>> granted in the>
> >>> profession, is a quotation from the Roman poet Homer.  In translation it
> > 
> > reads:
> >>>         Brother, if you have a better idea, propose it freely.
> >>>         If not, make use of mine.
> >>> 
> >>> Or, idiomatically:
> >>> 	Put up or shut up.
> >>> 
> >>> Its easy being a critic.
> >>> Contributing something that is effective, lasting, easy to understand
> >>> and
> >>> maintain, and extensible is quite another matter.
> >> 
> >> Uh, the better idea had already been proposed, and it proved itself for
> >> decades. Nothing about systemd improves upon it.
> >> 
> >> systemd is like saying you think you invented a better way to do
> >> accounting. All that best-practices stuff they taught everyone for
> >> decades, so old and obsolete, we have a better way where we don't have
> >> to do all that annoying double entry stuff. Oh ok. Got it.
> >> 
> >> --
> >> bkw
> > 
> > Yep. And KDE3 is the only desktop.
> > And kernel 2.6 is the best ever made.
> 
> You have that exactly backwards. A useful tool does not demand that you
> use kde3, OR kde5.
> 
> It does not even demand or care one whit if you use any desktop at all.
> What a perfectly illustrative assumption you make by even saying "kde3".
> 
> There is nothing about init that prevents you from using any desktop, or
> from developing it to new different ones. This new vs old fixation is
> what's idiotic. Assumptions are what's wrong. Assumptions always need to
> be as few and necessary as possible. The old init makes *fewer*
> assumptions, and inflicts no demands upon how the higher level
> applications do things. It allows you to replace kde3 with kde5 or kde18
> without caring at all. It is systemd which creates incompatibility out
> of thin air for no justifiable reason. There is no feature which systemd
> provides, which had to be implemented the way systemd does it, requiring
> the exclusion of, and breaking the function of any and all other methods
> of system set-up.
> 
> You say you have heard it all before, but how does that change any of
> the facts? And if you've heard it all before, then really that's just
> embarrassing for you, since it means you can no longer claim ignorance
> to excuse or explain your lack of understanding.
> 
> Let me ask another question: What is so magic about this decision that
> makes it so unassailable? The init system can only change once in the
> history of time? It can change from init to systemd, but that was it,
> now it can only be systemd until the heat-death of the universe?
> 
> You make ludicrous arguments based only on other ludicrous arguments.

No. Just saying that things move on.  If someone had found a way to make 
sysvinit meet with modern requirements ..... And systemd will have a successor 
as well. It's what we do, create/improve things. My reference to KDE3 was just 
a joke. 


-- 
Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht

openSUSE Board Member
openSUSE Forums Team

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